Jungle Republic - Game Over

Game Information:

Emma Pillsbury wrote:nightless

Everyone, please say, was Finn your top guy for the Werewoolf?

April Rhodes wrote:Responding to Kurt, I will say that is argument has pretty much deteriorated (hey I'm not WW!!), but I will say that I'm not sure why you would consider my early posts to be parroting? I kinda get "under the radar" but then again Sunshine has been "under the radar," but you are giving her a pass for "pro-town" posts. What happened to my posts being pro-town :[
 

Dave Karofsky wrote:

oh and in 5-2 we can afford 2 mislynches just to provide a bit of perspective.

Marley Rose wrote:

Emma Pillsbury wrote:

April Rhodes wrote:sexist pig

Vote: Emma Pillsbury

I think you are mafia.

April figured me out.

Vote: Blaine Anderson for voting the Seer.

Starting off nightless with that. My top 2 scumreads as of now.


Though people might not take that seriously, it did start me off a bit with my scumhunt. Most of my claims were based on people's analyses and their reaction towards Sebastian earlier on in the game so here we go.

I'd like to put forward that the scum team is between April Rhodes and Emma Pilsbury with my vote leaning towards Emma.

Emma Pillsbury wrote:Mike--
Blaine doesnt care about you, he's just off now that his life is in danger if you're not on the other team, he wants an easy mislynch either way. Blaine will discover that I don't make bets like that EVER because it's unethical, Use it to push for a lynch. Or more nonsense logic like on you

Marley--
pot calls the kettle a Black.

April--
LOL parrot cheep cheep

Another small instance between Emma and April that stood out for me. Emma led the bandwagon on Blaine after the issue between him and Mike resolved, which was opportunistic if you ask me. She used his recklessness and tunneling to work with something and April parroted it then and there. If you read on April's posts about Blaine, you'd notice her pulling stuff out of her ass that's mostly fluff and not really scumreading. It's mostly "He's a bad guy because he's aggressive with scumhunting." "His posts are careless and sloppy." and I do admit that I had to join in the bandwagon due to time pressure, but those two are buddying. I'm confident of it.

Any other player can see that Emma just ignored April parroting and both continued to tunnel Blaine. This due to them being scumpartners. 

Sebastian Smythe wrote:Okay, I won't say much about most of the cancerous posts that were posted while I was sleeping, as it is just a huge aggressive argument between Blaine and Mike. The most important thing to note is both of them had completely different thoughts after Sebastian (Hummel) came in and stopped the argument.

Anyway, I have some questions for the two of them involving the sitatuion:

@Blaine:

What made you change your viewpoint on Mike to absolute scum to village idiot?

What was your motive for attempting to figure out Mike's PO alias, and revealing it in the game?

@Mike

What are your current viewpoints on Blaine now, after your heated argument and then completely turning around and unvoting him?

Why do you use Emma as a reference to supporting you during your argument? Honestly it makes it seem like there is buddying going on with both of you.

Regarding the buddying between Emma and Mike, I see a couple possible scenarios:

- Mike is trying to use Emma as a reference in helping to defend himself, Mike could be trying to make Emma flip scum.

- Mike may be trying to get Emma on his side, trying to get her to agree with him to prevent himself from getting voted by her.

Anyways, I'm tired now, I'll respond to more of the discussion tomorrow

On that note, Sebastian had a vote on Emma earlier on, though it wasn't a scumtell vote, it was a vote to add pressure and have her put out the claims. Sebastian Smyth is a good player, though his posting was short lived considering he was killed off first, I am fairly confident that he's the type to pull off a bus like that.

On the quote, I found it highly opportunistic that he jumped on Mike and tried to clean off Emma by putting her as a neutral party rather than a buddy herself. Emma and him might've brushed off the buddying but after the Blaine x Mike fiasco it was fairly obvious that they were buddying just then. Sebastian took this opportunity to retract the vote on Emma and switch focus on someone else. 

Both of them just idly posted when Mike claimed seer accusing Jessie, despite the possibility that Mike was lying was abysmal. They just merely jumped on the bandwagon with little to no effort of scumhunting for a potential partner. Even the two more inactive players, Sunshine and Kurt, managed to bring something to the table unlike the pair. 

Mercedes has been acting extremely thorough with her posts. I entertained the possibility of her being wolf because she had complete control and trust on the village and whenever that happens, I'll usually get paranoid. Though with the threat of the wolf eliminated, I'm going to have to push her off as clean, for now, depending on what happens for the initial lynch. 

I would make this more organized and add more evidence but I'm having difficulty with quoting older posts. I apologize. I just took the few instances of parroting and buddying by both. They for me seem the scummiest in the game at the moment and I just wanted to highlight to everyone the possibility that they are the mafia pair.

With that, I'm going to have to..

vote Emma Pillsbury

marley wrote:But I'm going with my reasoning and my gut and say

unvote
vote Blaine Anderson

marley wrote:I'm appalled at how negatively Blaine is taking the sudden turn of votes. Rather than expanding on the points that people used against him he resorted to flaming and taunting.

You're really making things worse here Blaine

marley wrote:It's mostly "He's a bad guy because he's aggressive with scumhunting." "His posts are careless and sloppy. I do admit that I had to join in the bandwagon due to time pressure

marley wrote:Sebastian: I almost forgot you were ingame. Most of your posts don't really stand out, lol. Could be that fact that it's hard to notice your original input. You're eye candy. Both in your good looks but your plays as well!

marley rose wrote:If players did what she did then, and just bandwagon on that claim then it's obvious that she has nothing original to bring to the table.

Sunshine Corazon wrote:But, because I can change my mind depending upon today's lynch and also depending on how serious I see seb's vote (I.E. I NEEDA RE-READ); she constantly misrepresents what people say, and her reads have flipped a bit. e.g. She keeps saying I wanted a no lunch.... But I was suggesting lynch who we felt scummiest (as an alternative if people didn't want to lynch Jesse/mike and were confused[although I was quite confident he was ww]). Also she suggests that I thought mercedes was scum, which is not true.

Marley Rose wrote:First off, Dave quickly jumped on the Blaine bandwagon to quickly dispose of him. This does clear him from being Mafia since he added the final nudge that got Blaine lynched, but this also puts him closer to being Werewolf. Though really, I can't blame him for wanting to get the lynch over with since Blaine was acting extremely scummy at the time.

Why Mike Chang is still alive is beyond me. It would seem like he fully advertised being a PR to everyone with his last minute claims, claims that saved him from the chopping board. Despite his outrageous post count, he has contributed nothing of worth to the village and is starting to tip as suspect for Werewolf. I've been leaning on to this for a bit now as well.

Mercedes Jones wrote:

Sunshine Corazon wrote:
Although @mercedes benz what did you mean when you said "easy to overlook with Mike and Blaine" cause that's a bit ambiguous.

I meant that the scumminess and sheer volume of their posting overshadows other potential scumreads- much of this thread is focussed on Mike and Blaine and how they're scummy/village idiot/whatever.

Blaine, I was looking forward to some reasoning and evidence for Mike as village idiot and Emma as scum, yet you've provided none. Your tunnelling and 180 are looking as suspicious as ever.

Mike, what are your thoughts on Blaine? Though I understand that you're no longer going after him in the same way after admin intervention, you seem to have dropped the issue entirely. The only justification you've provided for your unvote is that you were wrong about the rules and this is something I find very strange.

Really though, I am sick of players lurking in the shadows, and/or providing little to nothing with their posts. New Jesse seems alright so far, Finn has been unsteady in terms of his activity and many (not all though) of his posts don't show a lot of reasoning, he has at least been responsive.

Sunshine, Kurt, Sebastian and Dave (lol, is he even playing?) are the ones I'm wary of. Posts have been either devoid of content or illustrate a suspiciously high level of caution. Combined with their lurking, I think it's time to do something about this.

Unvote
Vote Sebastian Smythe

Also Emma you seem to be somewhat against Marley. Why is that?

April Rhodes wrote:I'm honestly really disappointed in the fact that people are not reading my posts and are sticking to whatever biases they may have. It seems my time is running out so I guess I will contribute as much as possible before my final moment

marley wrote:But I'm going with my reasoning and my gut and say

unvote
vote Blaine Anderson

marley wrote:I'm appalled at how negatively Blaine is taking the sudden turn of votes. Rather than expanding on the points that people used against him he resorted to flaming and taunting.

You're really making things worse here Blaine

marley wrote:It's mostly "He's a bad guy because he's aggressive with scumhunting." "His posts are careless and sloppy. I do admit that I had to join in the bandwagon due to time pressure

You must have been reading a different game because my posts were absolutely not like that at all. I called him out for guessing people's identities (which, incidentally, you did as well, which I unfortunately missed) and for rejecting any alternative that Mike might be town. Marley is clearly misrepresenting my early day 1 play, which even she thought was townish.

And not only but your claim that you only joined that bandwagon because of time issues is at best really really weak, and at worst, makes you look like you are doubletracking and saying "YEAH I was only involved in that lynch because I had to, not because I wanted to." You made no mention of "time issues in the posts leading up to the lynch, and even admitted that your gut said he was scum. I would have no problem with this, except for the fact you seem to be trying to convey that you were forced into that lynch when it's very clear you weren't.

marley wrote:Sebastian: I almost forgot you were ingame. Most of your posts don't really stand out, lol. Could be that fact that it's hard to notice your original input. You're eye candy. Both in your good looks but your plays as well!

Reading back, this part caught my eye particularly on how noncommittal it was. What exactly is she saying? Nothing, there's no definitive scum-town-null read. At the time, it doesn't seem like much, but given Sebastian's flip it's interesting how little she had to say on him. Maybe it's just me, but I tend to believe that read was a good way of saying something about Sebastian (so it doesn't seem like she is ignoring him) without actually giving a thoughtful opinion on him.

marley rose wrote:If players did what she did then, and just bandwagon on that claim then it's obvious that she has nothing original to bring to the table.

This was a weird part of one of her posts considering a] I didn't jump on the bandwagon and b] The bandwagon ended up lynching a werewolf. You can call it not bringing anything original to the table, or you can call it a case of inactivity (while still being right).

I find that Marley seems to be distancing herself as much as possible for her early day 1 actions and I'm starting to see where Sunshine was coming from with that Day 1 vote. It's probably too late but I am going to go ahead and vote marley rose

Sunshine is still gone so I hope we can get a sub or something.

I'm going to try and present more arguments later tonight so we can get more info out there. Don't hammer until sometime tomorrow so I can do that please

Sunshine Corazon wrote:Hihi. On my phone so no quotes.

Another rant;

• As I said before honestly it was hard to participate in this game because people were using ad hominem and elitism to vote people d1 or to make others look scummy, and frankly that's a crappy way of building a case and not a fun way to play mafia. "You play mafia worse then me, therefore you are scum" is pretty much what was going on

If I'm guilty about that then I apologize. I just found it particularly annoying on how Mike was cluttering up the game with numerous posts that delivered no content and was plainly post count. It makes reading back on the previous bits of the game much more difficult considering it adds pages unnecessary pages to the game and makes me lose track of things. On Blaine's case, he was openly trying to expose the identity of a certain player and even insulting/swearing towards the town for not following him. 

• I was away for the past week and a bit, I thought I would be able to get on (at least more than once) but the trip was just so good so yah.

Welcome back.

• not gonna lie; I hate being nightkilled

Reeds

• I'm feeling a lot less confident in my reads than d1 mostly cause I was probably tunneling seb and marley d1 (seb's dead and marley's post are good content-wise aside from a couple wishy washy things but.... [on that later])

• my biggest scumread/lynch I'm most ok with would be emma
~ NOPE wrote that last night
• I'm fairly sure (despite her odd play) she can't be mafia cause of how seb went after her in the beginning

I already pointed out on how Sebastian used Mike to find a reason to switch vote mid-game. Read page 5/27 (I don't know the post count because this isn't PO so, welp). That shows where Blaine initially had the scum read for Emma. After a few posts, he immediately jumps on Blaine, disregarding Emma. The quote I already posted above showed his the way he used Blaine's tunneling Mike to find way to remove his soft bus with Emma.



• But, because I can change my mind depending upon today's lynch and also depending on how serious I see seb's vote (I.E. I NEEDA RE-READ); she constantly misrepresents what people say, and her reads have flipped a bit. e.g. She keeps saying I wanted a no lunch.... But I was suggesting lynch who we felt scummiest (as an alternative if people didn't want to lynch Jesse/mike and were confused[although I was quite confident he was ww]). Also she suggests that I thought mercedes was scum, which is not true.

See my post towards Emma. Also, when did I say that you thought Mercedes was scum? I don't fully understand this part so please explain a bit more.

• so yah I have been looking at how people saw seb and how he saw other people.
And this stuck out to me from marley; 
"Sebastian: I almost forgot you were ingame. Most of your posts don't really stand out, lol. Could be that fact that it's hard to notice your original input. You're eye candy. Both in your good looks but your plays as well!"

It sounds so contrived and incoherent as well. As if she is just jumping at stuff to get a non-incriminating read on her partner

I'd like you to look back and read over Sebastian's posts. Despite being our first Mafia goon, his post really well thought of and provided what a lot of us failed to do despite inactivity. I had no set reads on him because his posts were pro-town (He highlighted that Blaine was using Mike's sloppy posts was scummy and he also uplifted some cases of buddying) AND he was inactive. Are you saying that you knew that he was going to flip Mafia Goon in the first place? At that point in the game, the only person who I saw having a scumread on Sebastian was Blaine, whose basis comes from OMGUS and you, Sunshine. I read back and saw Mercedes vote on him as well, but that was for being overly cautious/inactive.
"Sunshine, Kurt, Sebastian and Dave (lol, is he even playing?) are the ones I'm wary of. Posts have been either devoid of content or illustrate a suspiciously high level of caution. Combined with their lurking, I think it's time to do something about this.

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Vote Sebastian Smythe"[/b]

You were in the same position as him, except Sebastian gave better points that were leading pro-town. That's why he had a null-town read and you had a null-WW read, because from his posts then, we were actually able to make something of. 

• so actually now I'm confident in this read after doing an "iso" except not really an iso in the literal sense of marley;


• and ok for people who are saying they don't get my argument. Really every post of marley's is like "this thing someone did is good, this thing is bad". Read the reads post, marley's posts about a mike-blaine scumteam. Honestly she seems to just leave open vote opportunities on everyone. And that's ok insofar as no-one-is-actually-100%-confirmed-town-to-anyone-else. But so much of what she writes is just wishy washy, as if she calls it town and one stage but then could use it as evidence of being scum.
And I think from a potentially experienced player (which she sounds) town has no reason to do that in such a way. Yeaah

If you're going to use me entertaining every possibility of a scum pair against me then that's fine. If you're going to call off not fully having a scum read on a person despite how a vote flips as scummy then you probably have no plan on defending yourself if you lead a mislynch except "whoops." 

• my point about blaine was that she was so willing to vote what she called a null read. I'll look at this again but that's what I think happened.

• she uses phrases which when I read them I think "wow scum" because her posts sound thought out and artificial. Phrases such as "the sudden turn of votes" and "truly unfortunate" are just stuff that sticks out as so contrived.

What?

• marley jumped on mike before he claimed for not dying. I just note that really at no point does she entertain the idea that mike could be mafia. Not sure what I make of that yet.

He made a soft claim as seer N1 which everyone doubted. I don't know why none of you found that suspicious.

• this is what she said earlier "Both of them just idly posted when Mike claimed seer accusing Jessie, despite the possibility that Mike was lying was abysmal." i will probably mention this in a later post in larger detail (WITH QUOTES AN STUFF!) but basically when you look at her reaction to mike/jesse's initial claim she is either not at all/not particularly convinced of mike's claim or is lying so that statement above is a major contradiction, and in reality seems like the truth being bended to accuse people of being mafia.

See my post above on why I tried to remain impartial, despite having voted Jesse anyways. I think the term is WIFOM if I'm correct? I don't know, I don't really read up on this but I see it being thrown around a lot in different games. I was trying to see the possible partner opportunities rather than just voting the obvious Werewolf out in a bandwagon. 

• vooote marley rose

• sebastian's read post is hard when I'm thinking about it. To me the players he called scum have either flipped town. So I would like to assume that emma is town by POE, but again that can change.
He seems very willing to call mercedes town (although almost everyone was at that stage) and I don't understand how he came up with his read on kurt, seems as if he was grasping for stuff but that may be more indicative of seb's alignment then kurt's. Also, the people he omitted doing reads on; marley, april and finn. (Noting dat!)

Not really much to say except everyone saw Mercedes as pro-town, and everyone else was inactive at that stage of the game.

• I will need to re-read april but I think my read on her is largely null because I wanted to go all confirmation bias on her cause I didn't like how she was playing (weird aggression and then disappear. Calling blaine scum for everything) but then that kinda playing style is really not necessarily a reflection of alignment (probably).

Isolate her posts, especially in D2. 

• There was a bit of actual chainsaw defence going on as april's read of me slowly goes scummier; she kinda parrots marley in this and attacks for my "weak" and "left field" argument, and she seems to sound suprised about it. That post (p. 26) definitely gives me the gut read that they are a scumteam.

• I am (as of now) willing to hammer at deadline. Actually now that I think about it no one needs to hammer, cause plurality. No one hammer or you are mafia etc. unless it's deadline and you want the points! (Which i dooooo!)

• Not sure about dave as of now. I'm just trying to think through his hammer of blaine. What's the motivation? Why hammer in that manner

• i need to re-read kurt too.... Bah

• Sorry this post was so scattered. It was written in parts and stuff at different times. I want to re-read the whole thread before deadline today.

• now that I think about it's probably one of emma/marley and then ???
Re-read.

If you want to, isolate her posts as well. There was a reason I voted for her instead of April initially. One that I'll put after a full town read.. ! I won't really take it against you that you're trying to pressure me now considering you were one of the first to actually bring up my name as a possible suspect. I just want you to look at and understand my points and why I did such. 

• Actually going with the gut cause wynaut;
I feel as if it's; marley/april
Or emma/kurt

Au revoir all : )

Kurt Hummel wrote:I wasn't excusing activity per say, the fact that we are noticing sunshine having gone would be totally against the lurking that Mafia might want to play if we take what you are saying.
Basically sunshine's inactivity can't be explained by deliberate lurking in my opinion due to the nature of previous posts: not acting like mafia and then the fact that she would gain nothing from trying to stay under the radar, which has ultimately failed due to going so far under the radar that she has come back right into the centre.

My current view on April has changed a bit since last day. Due to her not turning out as mafia as I thought she has been progressively looking less and less like scum in my eyes. The recent post on Marley came across as an enlightened way of proving how she wasn't bad, which scum find it hard do. However my gut still feels like April is hiding something but look we have 2 days ish and stuff can happen in that time which may clear this up. I am looking forward to her other analysis. Just also like to say that I am reading your posts and everyone elses as I can't make an informed judgement without having the most amount of knowledge possible. Still slightly scum however due to recent posts from everyone else I debate who this would be with. Not Marley as too much coming from each against the other, probably not Emma as main bit against them is this apparent teaming which imo only comes through in this day with both of them trying to save own skin against Marley.

So going to hang fire on the hammer, very odd putting April on l-1 at this time Emma. Not afraid to use it though

When I opened the possibility of their scum-team, Emma doing that pretty much destroyed my whole argument. It was really off-putting too. Emma put me in a situation that if I didn't hammer, I'd have used her argument of using April's flip agaisnt her, and if I did hammer it would be too opportunistic. Keep in mind that I had to head to bed right after she did that and I didn't want to be too hasty with my vote, unlike her. Right now I'm just waiting for more input on everyone. 

On sunshines post I think this kinda shows what I was on about as well with Marley's posting and her possibility of being scum. However my main problem with it is that she looks like she is trying to pad it out with in depth reasons to vote Marley. But use of the way marley writes is an incredibly flawes method of analysis. Just because she talks in a different way doesn't mean she is automatically scum, looks to me like someone might have needed to look like they had a new take on things
On the other hand though the non grammar related points linked straight in with what I was saying about Marley so due to me being town I can relate to that well. 

What is your current read towards Sunshine and I then, and who is your biggest scum read so far?

Overall we have a while to go yet so don't get hasty and put more people at l-1 and things.

dave wrote: At this point. My only opinion is that my avatar looks like a douche and that I think the Mafia team is composed of 2 quiet plotters and a loud scumbag.

Sebastian Smythe wrote:
Sunshine: It's still rather hard to get a good read on her, mainly due to her lack of activity, and her opinions being those of the others. She is trying to get other players to give their reads on other players, but didn't really do so herself in her second post. Her latest post was better, actually giving more reads on other players, I still find it rather interesting how she feels Marley and Mercedes are not town-sided. As of now she seems to be null town