Jungle Republic - Game Over

by Ian Brennan Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:50 pm

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Game Information:

by Sunshine Corazon Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:12 am

Ok I have a bigfat post with d1 notes but I will probably post it unedited; it's just snap notes and thoughts

But I will preface it by saying i really think it is kurt and emma. Probably most confident logically (as in many scumtells) in emma and kurt just feels mafia after reading d1 and today, but want to hear him respond to questions..

by Sunshine Corazon Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:16 am

Oh i see mercedes voted emma. Will read before bigfatpost

by Sunshine Corazon Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:44 am

Not sure how coherent this will be but enjoy;

Thoughts

Can't be mercedes + kurt

April doesn't vote blaine d1 even though she brings everything against him - doesn't put her vote where he mouth is

Mercedes sounds super super super formal; (e.g. Mentions rhetoric and stuff, relies on logic)

First sebastian post he votes kurt for buddying finn
Interesting
References how rvs is not serious, could be aligned with his non-serious vote on kurt?

Sigh this is hard --> does this (post from sebastian);
I believe the point Mike is trying to make is Kurt posted seven minutes after Finn did, with their posts having similar logic in them, both voting Mike within a short period of time. The five minutes between the posts of Kurt and Mike had no correlation between them. Finn, you also failed to acknowledge much of the other points Mike made against you and only gave response to the time between posts. Trying to avoid discussion like that is rather scummy. I suggest you read over his posts again and possibly rethink your decision, or respond to some of the points made against you. "

Sound as if it were a defence of kurt?

April mentions "good post by mercedes there" dislike the subtle budyying

But then so yeah seb starts off slamming emma --> was there any chance of her being lynched at that stage?
Gives no reason for unvoting kurt!
That's somewhat condemning

"-I am scared on the first 4 votes of course. Finn, Kurt and Blaine looked bad. Mislynch is a goal for bads and Mike said he is Seer, yes I get scared.

Mike and Blaine deserves god kill But thats just me

I agree on Sebastian but I DO NOT trust Blaine"

That's odd. Agrees about seabasss but doesn't agree with anything else k

Weird as way to get a scumread on your partner.

Blaine and seb as top two.

That's scummy (having your second scumread as someone who has flipped scum). Not necessarily as a rule but
Emma never (or hasn't yet voted seb) interesting

"Why do you use Emma as a reference to supporting you during your argument? Honestly it makes it seem like there is buddying going on with both of you.

Regarding the buddying between Emma and Mike, I see a couple possible scenarios:

- Mike is trying to use Emma as a reference in helping to defend himself, Mike could be trying to make Emma flip scum.

- Mike may be trying to get Emma on his side, trying to get her to agree with him to prevent himself from getting voted by her."

Ho hummm

I think mercedes also pointed this out just then but it seems as if seb is trying to attack mike here whilst simultaneously making it look as if he is attacking emma. Pretty poor.

Mercedes says kurt/seb suspicious but doesn't vote either of them k.

Page 10 kurt and april posts are interesting.
Specifically kurt slightly defending emma!

Awkward defence from kurt; "Mike: I draw your attention to my posts on this page as they seem to provide evidence against you saying I do not post in long whiles. And for the other times it was due to having irl stuff to do and you and blaine going on for ever."

"Finn: "obviously" is an exaggerated tern and clearly shows you are much more inactive than I due to just taking what mike has just said at face value. On the opinions side again do some reading of my earlier posts on this page as I believe they are insightful and helpful to our town cause. Additionally I believe even though your judgment of Sebastian is sound it applies directly to you as well."

Subtle defence of sebastian through it to.

Mercedes probably more formal posting than I but similar language, makes it simultaneously easy/hard to see her as mafia. Tough

More emma

This point really depends on how good you think emma is, but experienced scum will have a scum buddy as their second top scumread. It seems as if it'd be optimal play.

Page 12 where it all happens

Kurt + seb slam jesse for targetting emma.

Up to about pg. 12

Really all the logic points to emma in terms of interactions but I feel kurt has generally played scummy now that I think about it. I would lynch either of them. Kurt on the basis of his reads post

Yep ok vote emma Pillsbury

Byeeee

by April Rhodes Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:24 am

shit ton to do and just lost my post. fuck everything. just gonna do a short recap as I had more and too busy to rewrite it

quick recap:

Mercedes, difference between taking time to form opinion and not laying down vote? seems to me to be same thing, can't have it both ways, either scummy or not scummy

sunshine's vote looks opportunistic. notes don't take into account dave since he was largely absent from day 1

kurt is making no sense me and dave bussing highlighting the confusing nature and near worthlessness of his posts. flying under the radar in sense no real pressure on him. scum right now.

emma = scum, reads seem weak including response, need to reread as I find difficult to read her posts, unfair to simply take a few posts in my read into consideration

vote kurt hummel will switch up vote tomorrow when more posts come in see where we at. lynch sunshine / kurt / emma today ok w/ me.

by Dave Karofsky Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:32 am

k so first of all people please stop typing your responses directly in this thread!
makes me lol and cry at the same time every time someone says they lost a post. seriously text editors exist for a reason. dont leave your precious content in the hands of a shitty web browser i implore you!
another busy day today but thoughts and shit coming in a bit

by Ian Brennan Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:07 am

Emma Pillsbury (0) - Mercedes Jones, Sunshine Corazon (L-2)
April Rhodes (0) -
Dave Karofsky (0) -
Sunshine Corazon (0) - Dave Karofsky (L-3)
Kurt Hummel (0) - April Rhodes (L-3)
Mercedes Jones (1) - Emma Pillsbury (L-3)

6 people are playing. 4 votes are required to lynch a player.

Because this setup is nightless, if no player reaches 4 votes before the deadline, plurality will apply and the player with the most votes on them will be lynched.

In the event of a tie between players, whoever received the most votes first (measured starting with the last time they were affected by a vote or unvote) will be lynched.

If the deadline were to occur right now, Emma Pillsbury would be lynched.

Deadline is Tuesday, July 23 at 07:00 GMT +0, approximately 1 day from now.

by Dave Karofsky Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:38 am

a couple things that bugged me:

Sunshine Corazon wrote:HIHIHI

will post before deadline again

@marley;
Marley Rose wrote:I've said what I needed to say and plurality will likely lynch me out. Good luck town.

Saying things like that is so unhelpful.
If you are town I will be upset as heck. = (
I mean seriously I'm sure you knew when you posted that you could get the lynch off you.

this is mostly just a gut feeling but things like "if you are town i will be upset Sad

" just feel like scum taking precautions to look better after leading a mislynch.
let me see if i can explain this. so to me saying stuff like this implies the mislynch was a result mostly of bad play on the behalf of lynched player. and this in turn serves to distance a player who lead a mislynch from being guilty for said lynch which is scummy since only scum know a player will flip villy and scum is more worried about that sort of thing.
also in my opinion scum more often than town try and act upset with results to seem town. so sunshine saying stuff like "Poo : ( I really don't know anymore. Honestly when marley flipped town it made me feel as if I have no clue in this game..." looks kinda bad as well
these plus a lack of contributions and her being atop my daveometer were why i voted her yesterday. however i dont think she is my top scumread and it seems like shes /at least pretending/ to try and hunt scum which is more than my top scumread can say. that is:

kurt hummel. yes he was low on the daveometer but lol im not pretending like that was conclusive or anything.
why i think hes scum
1) is this guy even concerned with catching scum? doesnt seem to be at all. every post he makes is pretty much only defending himself. seems way more concerned with looking town by posting tldrs and trying to fend off accusers than to actually find scum. like the only point hes raised so far and correct me if im wrong but it was about some really weak and irrelevant one sentence read of aprils on the former inactive me. yes she said she wouldnt be suprised if im a scum inactive! so what? i say shit like that all the time to pressure inactives to contribute. if thats really the best youve got then youre scum as shit.

2) if you were town and you read marley as scum then why not vote her? instead you say "SO Yeah this shed some new light imo, gonna put her as my top scum read. BUT i want to hear what other people say first." why are you so concerned with what other people have to say? seems to me like youre trying to leave yourself open to another wagon if possible and at the same time disassociate yourself with the mislynch somewhat.
plus theres the whole idea of this game being for points: this will be a sort of defense in an attack. i know i took some heat for voting marley and yes it looks somewhat bad since i wasnt as fully informed as id like to be; i openly admitted i hadnt finished rereading day 1. however i read enough to feel comfortable with a lynch and mostly i didnt want to miss out on the major point bonus for being involved in a successful lynch like i did with finn. which was bs btws lol but anyways. point is i feel kurt also isnt playing from a town perspective since hes not looking to gain the points for being involved on the lynch of a player he thought was scum.

so ya if you didnt catch it i voted 9 minutes before the deadline because marley was getting lynched either way and i wanted points if she flipped scum!

on to other stuff:

sunshine wrote:I can't see how my vote of seb was fabricated.

i like how you dont even bother responding to my major points so let me lay it out for you again.

sunshine wrote:However, I think the scummiest player is definitely sebastian Smythe though.

vote Sebastian Smythe

Do you have an opinion? He actually hasn't said anything is scummy and has just summarised stuff which is so much easier for scum to do than actually scumhunt. His posts indicate that he's trying to appear helpful without being helpful. He also sounds experienced so I expect him to actually scumhunt from, even this early in the game.

however sebs most recent post had said:

sebastian smythe wrote:I believe the point Mike is trying to make is Kurt posted seven minutes after Finn did, with their posts having similar logic in them, both voting Mike within a short period of time. The five minutes between the posts of Kurt and Mike had no correlation between them. Finn, you also failed to acknowledge much of the other points Mike made against you and only gave response to the time between posts. Trying to avoid discussion like that is rather scummy. I suggest you read over his posts again and possibly rethink your decision, or respond to some of the points made against you.

Kurt and Blaine really need to show more of an opinion, rather than parroting Finn's vote and choosing to vote Mike using nearly the same wording as Finn did, he wants to hunt mafia but not werewolves. Werewolves are clearly the biggest priority to lynch currently, being a bigger threat to the village due to their ability to kill.

Also, I'd like to point out this is RVS in a NOC game, the randing is not counterproductive and is generally encouraged early in the game to promote discussion among players.

emphasis added. this is why i thought your vote was fabricated!

also i think its interesting that her gut said I was mafia... until she reread day 1 where former me had not posted at all but somehow she became convinced two others were mafia?
i just feel like if town actually thought i was scum they wouldnt write it off so much simply based on reading day 1 where i obviously wont look bad since former me didnt post!
not that you should think im scum because im not!
i do want to hear more as to why i am scum though in particular why that sentence on emma is scummy. i can and will defend myself!

mercedes: what exactly about my hammer was scummy? kinda unsure about this but hopefully ive explained myself well enough already.

april wrote:kurt is making no sense me and dave bussing highlighting the confusing nature and near worthlessness of his posts. flying under the radar in sense no real pressure on him. scum right now.

really confused about this post i think its just poorly worded. cuz i dont think i bussed dave anywhere and i dont even know who youre saying is scummy me or kurt? clarification please.

oh and one last note to everyone: i think there has been far too much scumteam speculation going on. i mean its very tempting to try and draw connections between players and i am definitely guilty of this as well but i think this is most valuable after a flip. i.e. sebastian. i mean some speculation is okay but i feel like it has taken over our scumhunting and i think it is more important to lynch the scummiest player rather than trying to peg the partners and then go from there.

phew. all that said my reads are:

kurt hummel: scum
sunshine corazon: leaning scum.
emma pillsbury: null.
april rhodes: null.
mercedes jones: leaning town.

unvote vote kurt hummel
might also be comfortable with a sunshine lynch but i feel good about kurt.

by Mercedes Jones Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:48 am

Some more points on Emma MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT:

Emma Pillsbury wrote:
Emma Pillsbury wrote:Mike--
Blaine doesnt care about you, he's just off now that his life is in danger if you're not on the other team, he wants an easy mislynch either way. Blaine will discover that I don't make bets like that EVER because it's unethical, Use it to push for a lynch. Or more nonsense logic like on you

Marley--
pot calls the kettle a Black.

April--
LOL parrot cheep cheep

Another small instance between Emma and April that stood out for me. Emma led the bandwagon on Blaine after the issue between him and Mike resolved, which was opportunistic if you ask me. She used his recklessness and tunneling to work with something and April parroted it then and there. If you read on April's posts about Blaine, you'd notice her pulling stuff out of her ass that's mostly fluff and not really scumreading. It's mostly "He's a bad guy because he's aggressive with scumhunting." "His posts are careless and sloppy." and I do admit that I had to join in the bandwagon due to time pressure, but those two are buddying. I'm confident of it.

Any other player can see that Emma just ignored April parroting and both continued to tunnel Blaine. This due to them being scumpartners.
I wanted to vote Blaine most of day 1, not the joke part, but if you look to the post Mike found his "we", i say then I saw the we and didn't switch to Sebastian as I was thinking before, ever after that I showed the bad things in Blaine, which i thought was a bad guy. After the Mike Bet Blaine voted me, because I had alot of votes, it looked like definately a wagon vote, he didn't even give reason, obvious scum move. I do not get that he was good, even now, I can't believe that, when I read him.

And you quote a post, I say April is a parrot, you say I "ignored April parroting"?

Sebastian Smythe wrote:Okay, I won't say much about most of the cancerous posts that were posted while I was sleeping, as it is just a huge aggressive argument between Blaine and Mike. The most important thing to note is both of them had completely different thoughts after Sebastian (Hummel) came in and stopped the argument.

Anyway, I have some questions for the two of them involving the sitatuion:

@Blaine:

What made you change your viewpoint on Mike to absolute scum to village idiot?

What was your motive for attempting to figure out Mike's PO alias, and revealing it in the game?

@Mike

What are your current viewpoints on Blaine now, after your heated argument and then completely turning around and unvoting him?

Why do you use Emma as a reference to supporting you during your argument? Honestly it makes it seem like there is buddying going on with both of you.

Regarding the buddying between Emma and Mike, I see a couple possible scenarios:

- Mike is trying to use Emma as a reference in helping to defend himself, Mike could be trying to make Emma flip scum.

- Mike may be trying to get Emma on his side, trying to get her to agree with him to prevent himself from getting voted by her.

Anyways, I'm tired now, I'll respond to more of the discussion tomorrow

On that note, Sebastian had a vote on Emma earlier on, though it wasn't a scumtell vote, it was a vote to add pressure and have her put out the claims. Sebastian Smyth is a good player, though his posting was short lived considering he was killed off first, I am fairly confident that he's the type to pull off a bus like that.

On the quote, I found it highly opportunistic that he jumped on Mike and tried to clean off Emma by putting her as a neutral party rather than a buddy herself. Emma and him might've brushed off the buddying but after the Blaine x Mike fiasco it was fairly obvious that they were buddying just then. Sebastian took this opportunity to retract the vote on Emma and switch focus on someone else.
This is odd, however, Mike may have more votes at the time, Sebastian was not hard to Jesse when Blaine got the votes, I think he did the same to me, wants to push me for an easy lynch but saw Mike had the votes, and went away. I will look for it too.

Both of them just idly posted when Mike claimed seer accusing Jessie, despite the possibility that Mike was lying was abysmal. They just merely jumped on the bandwagon with little to no effort of scumhunting for a potential partner. Even the two more inactive players, Sunshine and Kurt, managed to bring something to the table unlike the pair.
You forget Dave, I did much more than April, and if you read again I had as much ideas as Sunshine, probably right on Kurt, but my point is, youre putting me with April because you say so, that is a lie, no facts there. Not to mention, I voted on him then took it back for safety with the no lynch, April didn't vote, you and Finn and Kurt were the last three, the bandwagon claim is a lie again.

There is another idea, but you all need to answer my question, about Finn and the wolf, or it is not so helpful. I see Kurt did, is a good sign.

Mercedes has been acting extremely thorough with her posts. I entertained the possibility of her being wolf because she had complete control and trust on the village and whenever that happens, I'll usually get paranoid. Though with the threat of the wolf eliminated, I'm going to have to push her off as clean, for now, depending on what happens for the initial lynch.

I would make this more organized and add more evidence but I'm having difficulty with quoting older posts. I apologize. I just took the few instances of parroting and buddying by both. They for me seem the scummiest in the game at the moment and I just wanted to highlight to everyone the possibility that they are the mafia pair.

With that, I'm going to have to..

vote Emma Pillsbury
I think, you and April are the mafia, it is clear by you voting me, your plan--you lynch me, and get a day, you take back the idea, find a new guy, but if the real town finds April, you look good now, you saw her.

I should have before, vote you or April, to get answers of my question, but I was tired :)I think it is safe to make her 3 of 4

vote: April Rhodes

-I've already suggested that Emma didn't really show many reasons why Blaine was bad
-Her comments on Blaine being a wagon vote are odd- if this was a main component of the case against her, why not mention it immediately? It took several posts of hers to mention Blaine in relation to a wagon, and even then it was half-rhetoric- she failed to make it clear that it was a substantial part of her case against him, or to explain why his vote should be viewed as a wagon vote.
-Emma had 2 votes on her prior to Blaine voting her. That's not a lot. More to the point, she wasn't being pressured at all, there was no momentum towards lynching her due to the Mike-Blaine fiasco, until Blaine started investigating her. So there goes her claims that Blaine was just jumping on a wagon.
-I'm not sure what she's trying to say when she responds to the comments on Sebastian apparently trying to clear her as neutral. I think it's that Mike had more votes, so he was an easier lynch, which is why Seb cleared you to focus on Mike? Wrong. You had more votes (equal if we discount Seb's). There goes that explanation. Also worth noting is that Sebastian didn't shift his vote from Emma until a bit later.
-I'm not sure why she's making a big deal out of her question about having Finn as their top ww candidate. Frankly, it seems a silly question, one that's easily answered regardless of alignment, and unlikely to shed light on anything.
-Look at her reasoning for an April-Marley scumteam. Look at it. There's no reasoning at all, beyond OMGUS. And with that she votes April, putting her at L-1. So she provides no reasoning, votes someone already with a lot of votes. BANDWAGON. Very scummy.

Emma Pillsbury wrote:Who is going to put the hammer, this setup, no nights? Why does nobody, just Kurt, answer a big question?

When Sebastian said the comment, he was one in three votes of me, look to page 9, probably not wants to vote Mike, but I found out, this is after page 5, where he did the opposite(voted me for posts with Mike), and just after Blaine wagons me.

I found Jesse's post on my RVS vote, it was the day 1, I thought it was Jesse day 2, Jesse posts it day 1 and Mercedes day 2 says it's a bad post, that is why I forgot.

Not entirely sure what she's getting at here, but
-"Who is going to hammer in this setup". Why on Earth would you rely on that?
-She's done a complete 180 on her flawed defense to Marley's comments on Sebastian clearing her. I'm no longer sure what her response is. What point are you trying to make here? I'm not even sure if she noticed the contradiction, it certainly doesn't sound as if she did.

Emma Pillsbury wrote:
Sunshine Corazon wrote:But, because I can change my mind depending upon today's lynch and also depending on how serious I see seb's vote (I.E. I NEEDA RE-READ); she constantly misrepresents what people say, and her reads have flipped a bit. e.g. She keeps saying I wanted a no lunch.... But I was suggesting lynch who we felt scummiest (as an alternative if people didn't want to lynch Jesse/mike and were confused[although I was quite confident he was ww]). Also she suggests that I thought mercedes was scum, which is not true.

All i can answer is, I never mean to do any thing like that, misrep a person's reads or ideas, but--
-My memory of your idea day 2 was not lynch Jesse or Mike, at least that's the plan I got when I read it, but its good to know this now, it may change my feelings on a certain point. That is almost no lynch in a way, it makes the "Cross" with Mike and Jesse, I feel a big idea, but it is not the same, even if that, I was wrong.
-You didn't say scum on Mercedes, I didn't say scum, I say "not clean" and this reports the truth, you said read her well, but when do you? the posts now from you are all me, April, Marley, Dave, Kurt, like, "what does x say on Mercedes?" but no "what does Mercedes say on x?" For me, that seems like clean, I am a little set on two guys, but when I look at all of us I look at her.
-not sure on my reads, I need to post that again.

READS

April Rhodes: early on, Sebastian's buddy. I don't think the Blaine tunnel was so bad, now when I'm looking, it was from early, not an opportunity. But if you say "quality not quantaty" it's too much short posts, not just day 2, all over. day 2 was bad, even with a activity problem, the posts have no thoughts, all saying other people's ideas. Day 3 is just, question and question, but no looking, even when she can on Marley, Dave and me. Day 4 is good now, is a lot of defence, but if you have the votes like that, it has to be, but Sunshine has a good point, about going on her, when she is on Marley. : MAFIA

Marley Rose: Day 1, says Mike is wrong to say "get Werewolf", then said "get Werewolf", says she doesn't mean so but, she told April and me to claim, then talks about Mike and the Seer claim, I think it's bad to call a PR, it's like asked Wolf to kill him, votes me for not voting a guy I think is seer, says I wanted Mike out. Some of it is just, Blaine and Mike together, I think it was from Finn, but a few guys said that, seems like a wagon to me. She and Jesse both said I am in the middle, means I am bad, at that time she repeats some others, later posts are not repeats though. Day 2 she says a post I need to show, it is odd. this is page 16, only part of the post:
Marley Rose wrote:First off, Dave quickly jumped on the Blaine bandwagon to quickly dispose of him. This does clear him from being Mafia since he added the final nudge that got Blaine lynched, but this also puts him closer to being Werewolf. Though really, I can't blame him for wanting to get the lynch over with since Blaine was acting extremely scummy at the time.

Why Mike Chang is still alive is beyond me. It would seem like he fully advertised being a PR to everyone with his last minute claims, claims that saved him from the chopping board. Despite his outrageous post count, he has contributed nothing of worth to the village and is starting to tip as suspect for Werewolf. I've been leaning on to this for a bit now as well.
The mafia half seems like, she knows the mafia, hammer a town guy is a good thing? But again, the stuff on Mike, she wanted the Werewolf to get him, i think. Day 2 in other posts, is better, she did repeat the questions from me, says just get Werewolf one time, but day 2 this is probably good. Day 3, Marley is just about the Werewolf, takes eyes away from mafia AND APRIL, and then says she never believed Jesse. Day 4 is just one thing. : VERY MAFIA

Dave Karofsky: Old one looked bad, early dropping the hammer is never good IMO. On day 3, if you look, he starts with nothing, but and then it's good, nothing bad after that small thing, I think : SLIGHT TOWN?--need time, seeing if he posts a bad thing, now is still early Dave.

Sunshine Corazon: All of it looks good, until day 2, a small one, she voted Marley, but did not say Mercedes, Jesse, Dave voted late. fast to go on Jesse, but this is for WW, not for mafia, maybe a point to make here later. Day 3 is bad, I think, if a town person wants to live, he lynches the wolf, Sunshine said nothing at all. Day 4 post is good, but again, it is possibly Mercedes atleast, say something. The whole game is just, few posts, they look real good, the best, I think, a possible problem I can say if my question gets answers : TOWN

Emma Pillsbury: ME

Kurt Hummel: Day 1 is good, but, a little parrot to Finn, and talked about a plan, I don't think he said what. Also said the idea from Finn, Mike and Blaine together, and buddies me some times, I don't think mafia is doing this though. Wel then he agrees with Jesse's vote, on me, so it is balanced, looks to be for town really, as i said day 1. Day 2 he said as much as you can, with the two talking always, looked good except a thing on Mike, he wrote a small thing wrong, he and Finn are all over, possible wants to lynch Seer. Day 3 is good, looked at Jesse, but I don't know if the "find the partner" idea was better than "find the bad guy", I did both, but I will take the second, when I can. Answered my thing in day 4, a mafia maybe scared of this, Kurt also has a small problem, I can't say yet. : TOWN

Mercedes Jones: Day 1 is helping and good, but talks to inactives alot, I think it is easy to look town, going to inactive players, but it isn't an idea really, but I think now this post is odd, I don't like this.
Mercedes Jones wrote:
Sunshine Corazon wrote:
Although @mercedes benz what did you mean when you said "easy to overlook with Mike and Blaine" cause that's a bit ambiguous.
I meant that the scumminess and sheer volume of their posting overshadows other potential scumreads- much of this thread is focussed on Mike and Blaine and how they're scummy/village idiot/whatever.

Blaine, I was looking forward to some reasoning and evidence for Mike as village idiot and Emma as scum, yet you've provided none. Your tunnelling and 180 are looking as suspicious as ever.

Mike, what are your thoughts on Blaine? Though I understand that you're no longer going after him in the same way after admin intervention, you seem to have dropped the issue entirely. The only justification you've provided for your unvote is that you were wrong about the rules and this is something I find very strange.

Really though, I am sick of players lurking in the shadows, and/or providing little to nothing with their posts. New Jesse seems alright so far, Finn has been unsteady in terms of his activity and many (not all though) of his posts don't show a lot of reasoning, he has at least been responsive.

Sunshine, Kurt, Sebastian and Dave (lol, is he even playing?) are the ones I'm wary of. Posts have been either devoid of content or illustrate a suspiciously high level of caution. Combined with their lurking, I think it's time to do something about this.

Unvote
Vote Sebastian Smythe

Also Emma you seem to be somewhat against Marley. Why is that?
not so bad, but she was saying alot, "Mike and Blaine are x because x, inactives are inactive", i think this is off, if inactives are bad for the post count vote Dave or Jesse, but otherwise, where are the ideas? why Sebastian? The next post is reads, this is a good thing I think, good from there. Day 2 is good with Finn, but again a weird one, the slow reaction to claims, maybe bad guy trying to decide if to lynch a Seer, then completely on Jesse, not much posting or ideas actually. Day 3 is not good, I think it is all "find WW", "look at someone else", puts attention to other people, reads use ideas from my reads earlier, she looked like trying to beat day 3, on a town rep, making us forget her, before Dave helps. Day 4 is early : IN THE MIDDLE

I am surprised now, when I look over every tell, (I write a note when I see them,) Marley looks a bit worse, than April, but I would lynch both, I feel very good on them.
And i dn't think it's so bad, to put a person on l-1, a person who votes fast is clear bad, we (town) are doing good now, 5 to 2, they won't quick vote I think . . . and in nightless, we always can talk, if they do.

-I'm struggling to see buddying between April and Sebastian, and I likewise don't see how her posting has been limited outside of D2. I'm thinking this is more misrepping.
-All of her reads come across as merely listing things she finds scummy, rather than trying to work out who the scum actually are. Seriously, she just lists things, but doesn't look any further than that- there's no real analysis

Emma Pillsbury wrote:Sorry for my last post, I had to write fast, real life things, but I think I said the points, that I thought of.

Marley Rose wrote:I don't know why it's scummy for me to not immediately push for hammer in this type of setup. You're just willing to sacrifice a few townies to just to check whether or not your claim is true. (This being directed to Emma). Regardless of what they say. Right now we have vanilla mafia with no kills and being too aggressive with this will just end up making you look worse with every mislynch.
I do not know, just what "directed" means in this, but in case this what you mean, I do not believe a person will put the hammer early, or they are bad. But then, we have a way to catch one easy, and the setup is good again. And i think I am right

Marley Rose wrote:Not really much to say except everyone saw Mercedes as pro-town, and everyone else was inactive at that stage of the game.
day 1--
Emma Pillsbury wrote:Mercedes same place as Marley I think, says Mike and Blaine have too much attention but posts about them alot. Sunshine but less Town.
I said a warning, maybe not a bad read, but a point not all agreed on, (and on you the same read).

Marley Rose wrote:Emma, if I hammered April last night, would your opinion on me have changed?
In one way, my thought on the hammer is, early is a bad sign, I do not see l-1 the same though.

April Rhodes wrote:Her reads are really sporadic. First ones, gets Sebastian as slight scum. But then her next one is confusing in that she’s pretty much summarizing and not adding anything new ie “posts are only a few” “he and Mike buddies” “parrot a lot” and then her read on Kurt in the same post has no reasoning. This sort of stuff is annoying because a lot of Emma’s posts up to that point were “town town town” but then I read that one and my mind is completely changed because of how out of place that post feels.
Is that post, to mean this?
Emma Pillsbury wrote:
Also, Emma, if you want my vote off you, your best bet is to prove to me why Blaine, Sebastian, or Kurt is more scum.
Blaine--
-Only votes are wagon joining, 4 on Mike, 4 on me.
-tunneling Mike with no arguments, talks about ZZZX instead, insults for 3 pages.
-Suddenly Mike was a town read, Blaine waited to get off until he got into a bet, the bet is Blaine dies if Mike is Town. Blaine would vote his town read if it doesn't hurt him, that is the mark of a bad guy
-Blaine waits days and days to explain a vote, a read would be Okay, but a vote!!
-Acts like he's a big deal, insults users, angry at others who act superior and insulting, hipocritical = bad. Says multiple posts in a row are a bad tell, not true, lies = bad.
-only his opinions on me and Sebastian can be from a town view, all of his posts before were clearly bad, probbly trying to save himself.

Sebastian--
-posts are only a few, cautious, not a big tell though
-I thought he and Mike buddied before. he took it back, and if you look, Mike's opinion on a player is like the players opinion on Mike, can be a tell for less experience or bad, so not big again, but still suspicious.
-Posts are big but parrot alot, it takes time to find all the ones he copies, but if you still don't believe me, I can look for many.

Kurt--
-I don't think Kurt is bad actually
-Still more bad than me.
Jesse asked me why the three are bad, more than me, actually. My old Sebastian opinions were the same, but to show a big parrot problem, i need to quote a big post, take each idea, find an early post, where it's the same point, and again and again. This is a pain, I thank the Wolf for killing Sebastian. I was not thinking, Kurt is bad, I had no new evidence, and I said so.

April Rhodes wrote:Her behavior on the Jesse lynch was confusing. It seemed that most of the village was with Mike (including Marley’s “YEAH I was impartial to get him to do reads OFC”) but the vote on Mike was weird, considering the logic of “if that’s what Jesse posts when he’s dead.” Thing is the tell is more geared towards Emma being WW which obviously isn’t possible.
I was scared, after Blaine, it was the same post, for his death, and I was weak

April Rhodes wrote:I’m not sure why Emma is voting me, and atm it looks quite opportunistic considering the fact there is no mention of why she is voting me. Maybe I’m just lost in the wording, but assuming I’m not her vote on me doesn’t look good tbh.
The idea of you and Marley, I thought already, and I said some evidence, sorry if my explaining then is ugly:
-I saw you parrot day 1, even if Marley says not,
-I think day 2 was a problem, not "activity", but ideas, even a few posts can say more (Sunshine)
-if you and Marley are a team, it is the same thing, I felt good you were

April Rhodes wrote:I would put her over Dave simply due to her being around and more active than Dave, although def. not over Marley.
Do you say in this, activity is bad, Or Marley is good?

Mercedes Jones wrote:@Emma: Can you explain why you think my d2 actions are potentially scummy from the context of operating within the mafia- what my motivations for those actions would be, who I'm working with, etc? Also, I'm struggling to read your posts, they're quite incoherent.
I do not know about a partner, but this is the idea
-A town player says "Who is real?", posts views to find it out.
-A Werewolf player says "How can I kill the town guy?", tries to kill him, in some way.
-A mafia player says "Who should die, Seer or Wolf?", tries to think which, then to find which one is who.
The town and the Werewolf, they are fast, they know what to want. the mafia is slow, he is not sure what to want, so I think when you stopped, then went all on one guy, maybe you were thinking how to do it.

Mercedes Jones wrote:D3- I was not attempting to deflect attention from the mafia. Can you provide any post where I did so? for that matter, when Dave targeted me, I did not attempt to deflect attention. I instead answered his points, trying to explain my actions and why they were not scum. As for focussing on WWs, it probably looks that way, because we had FAR more evidence for the next WW than for any of the mafia.
Mercedes Jones wrote:The way he specifically points out that we should view these people as scum when he knows he's about to be lynched and flip scum, indicates that he wants to manipulate how we view those players. I'm wondering whether he may have listed his partner among them, knowing that his scumreads will be taken less seriously once he flips. Unless that's a little obvious and he hasn't done that at all (Not sure how likely this is though- The damn thing tends to just go around in circles).
...
The thing that pisses me off about examining scum's reads is that they're obviously rubbish since he was scum. But the fact that they're obvious could potentially be utilised. Running around in circles.

This is after I posted my point on Jesse, if we had the evidence for Werewolves, why is it all a circle? Before Dave voted, your response was just, here is why to look on the others. And i think there was evidence on the mafia, we all talk day 1 Sebastian now, but when I put day 1 Sebastian in day 3, Dave gave one reaction on Marley and no more talking about it. I think that if we killed the wrong guy day 3, Day 4 would be the same, we would be on lylo before we start to think of the mafia. This is not just you, but I do not like it from others, as well.

Kurt Hummel wrote:Which was the thing I wrote wrong? As i remember for the entire time of day 2 having Mike's claim as the most believable. I didnt flit between the two like Finn did, I kept solidly supporting Mike for the most part BUT tried to show both parts of the argument which is where this "mishap" may have arisen.

Sorry, i mean Mike, he said the "we" post, you and Finn were on it hard. It looks like a small mistake (1 letter), and the reaction is more than it.

Small problem? But it's ok, I can wait for it. I know I'm town so I know I can defend myself on it, whatever it may be.

With some of this post, and with the nightless game now, I think I will say it now. This post is big, I will try to have small quotes, because it is 2 ideas now, but related

I was fairly sure that I was just picking at some useless information due to the fact that clearly no one had even seen it. I thought I might have been on to something yet apparently it looked like it probably wasnt to be due to no one noticing it. I thought it was pretty obvious yet if the majority of people passed it off as unimportant then i kinda just thought subconsciously that i made a mistake. Its fine in hindsight saying "it was enough to make her null" but thats in hindsight with the tables having turned against her. She practically had a fanbase of the overall majority calling her town.
...
People not noticing what i classed as important infomation led me to believe I had missed something major as well.
...
But I think now people have started noticing the things I was talking about in D1 then we can collectively reach a judgement on her. And due to people noticing it I think it I can finally use it to inform my read on her as previously it wasnt taken seriously. Overall I would class her as leaning towards scum like i have been doing this day. I thought that i made it fairly clear that i had her more scum than town in that D3 read but aparently not so. But that was my judgement.

I read this, and I see, "I find tells, think Marley is in the middle, maybe not so town, but not a bad guy, until other people say she is", and, "other people just saying "town", means she is town"
I have been thinking, even in day 1, you will say things other people don't think, sometimes I agree but no others, as I said:

Emma Pillsbury wrote:Jesse, with Kurt, I'm not buddying because of his opinion of me, he and Sunshine think outside the box sometimes, that is a town thing to do I think, no matter theyre thoughts on me. Bad guys can agree with others all they want, no harm, but a good guy wants to discover.

But you say now, it is not right, unless other people agree. I do not think this is a town thing to think, how do you get bad guys, if you say the "no one noticed" means you are wrong?
here is the second point, but it is the same point, what I thought of before:

Kurt Hummel wrote:
Mercedes Jones wrote:

Kurt: Why did you not use your vote?

Because Dave was there first is the short answer.
Looks scummy, reads scummy, but ultimately the truth.
I was like "yeah I'll wait till morning ik he's a L-1 but like anyone will hammer at this time, wait till later cause need sleep"
They hammered.
Which is why I am also eager to hear why Dave voted Blaine.

Nice eating flesh graphics Mike

Ian Brennan wrote:Jesse St. James (6) - Mike Chang, Sunshine Corazon, Mercedes Jones, Marley Rose, Finn Hudson, Kurt Hummel (L-0)

Ian Brennan wrote:Finn Hudson (5) - Emma Pillsbury, Marley Rose, Mercedes Jones, April Rhodes, Kurt Hummel (L-0)

Day 1, day 2, day 3, day 4
Wants to hammer, hammer, hammer, no vote
You do not push hard, also not vote, unless it is the "collectively" agreed idea. I just thought, "why does he always hammer?", but now it is, "is anything he believes, not the agreed idea?" I do not trust you now, if you do not stick on your ideas, do not vote unless its certain, this can work on lylo, but that is just blending, if it is done always.

I need to think again, with April's opinion on Kurt + Marley, I may have the wrong team with April + Marley.

Unvote: April Rhodes

Emma Pillsbury wrote:Everyone, please say, was Finn your top guy for the Werewoolf?

AND this from day 2 Smile

Emma Pillsbury wrote:I want a votes count from the mod.

[/quote]

-She entirely missed the point of April's question regarding her cases against Blaine and Seb. It wasn't a lack of evidence that April was concerned about, it was the fact that she merely brought up a couple point already mentioned by others- not just parroting, but not really exerting much effort in the analysis.
-I've already responded to her point against me where she describes the various mentalities- I consider it an alarmingly baseless argument
-Also worth noting is she barely responds to my counterpoints. She merely reiterates her previous point. It kind of makes me think she doesn't really care about the quality of her argument, which is something I consider a major scumtell.

Emma Pillsbury wrote:
Dave Karofsky wrote:-not sure why emma is obsessed with her "question" concerning our thoughts on finn. care to explain? to give a brief answer myself to the question: i thought there was a chance hed flip ww you can see my analysis on him but i also thought he was somewhat scummy in general so i wouldnta been suprised if he flipped maf. he woulda been lynch priority #3 for me but i woulda hammered at deadline with little regret.
I can't say, i have just 2 answers, but thanks :)you will see

Mercedes Jones wrote:@Emma The evidence was there, it's just analysis was a little difficult and frustrating due to the level of WIFOM involved in analysing Jesse's reads.
Every body, read this sentence, there's evidence, but no use of the evidence.

Mercedes
Spoiler:

Marley Rose wrote:I didn't get to add it since my initial post got deleted, but your first post was copying my question to Jessie.

That was an example of a non-original parroting post you made.
I do have this already, I had to say this before, but it is not read--
page 19
Emma Pillsbury wrote:Jesse--why did you vote Dave, if you inspected him, and as town?
page 19
Jesse St. James wrote:
Emma Pillsbury wrote:Mike--why did you say, you will vote Blaine, with the hammer, long after saying he was town?

Jesse--why did you vote Dave, if you inspected him, and as town?

I'm about to go to sleep, so this will be my only response. I voted Dave because when I inspected it only says "not werewolf" he could still be mafia.
page 21
Marley Rose wrote:Jesse, if you're the seer, why did you prioritize your vote by getting on Dave when he was clearly not the wolf?
page 21
April Rhodes wrote:I might've missed it in the 10 billion pages of nothingness but Jesse, you mind explaining why you voted Dave after inspecting him as Town? Even w/ the possibility of mafia, it doesn't make sense to vote him unless you have a really strong mafia read on him.

Mercedes
Spoiler:

Big point
My thoughts on the team, and not one player, are this--
-April + Marley : I have said things on this a lot, it's Sebastian, Marley voting me to "clean the partner" April (when I am town, on the lynch), both look bad to me. They have 1 mislynch (me), if this is it, and will be found
-Marley + Kurt : I did not think of Kurt is bad before, but Marley was not obvious to some, before Sunshine made a post, and Kurt had to put his old thoughts, to keep away the argument I made on him. If April is voted, or I am voted, Kurt does not make a point on Marley, they are free, and 2 mislynches close to the win.
-Kurt + Mercedes : No one votes Mercedes, no one talks of her as bad, Marley says "everyone thinks Mercedes is good", so Kurt is fine, and 3 lynches look easier (April, me, Marley) so they win. Mercedes talks on those guys, so Kurt is safe, has not thought to him after day 3.
-Mercedes + April : Mercedes says, me then Marley, two lynches, April says the same, and they are close to a win. April says Mercedes as town, Mercedes looks away on April, they are safe. Mercedes says day 2 inactives are null, it does not "clean" me, but is the big evidence on April, so she is safe from Mercedes, as the partner.
--This makes a circle, I think the 4 are the worst, Sunshine is town, and I need time on Dave. I think Marley looks the worst alone, but before the point on Kurt, I had no bad theory for Kurt, other than hammers he looked good to me, so April is the link. Now Kurt looks like, he only votes on agreed people, (only an easy lynch), April or me or Marley. If Marley did not become a target, he does not remind others of his evidence, no lynch. I think if it's Kurt, then Kurt + Mercedes, but it is possible with Marley, with the reasons from April's post.

If Dave is bad, some people ignore the old one, they are the bad guys, but I do not think he is.

-Playing mysterious won't do you any favours (with regards to Dave's comments on your questions). The fact that you don't really answer here isn't good.
-I think I've already mentioned this, but appealing to other players rather than making a strong case comes across as scum trying to get a lynch, rather than village looking for scum.
-Her take on Mike-Blaine continues to misrepresent events- Blaine didn't unvote Mike until after mod intervention. Also, what indication is there that Blaine avoided the bet because he thought Mike was town? That's a very poor assumption, now that I think on it, given that it's so much more likely that it wasn't taken seriously. It's such a stupid interpretation of events that I'm actually thinking I should have had it as scummy before.
-No, I never sought to deny your claims against me on the basis of your shitty english. I sought to deny your arguments because the arguments themselves were rubbish. I have consistently tried to interpret your posts as accurately as I can.

Emma Pillsbury wrote:Another Blaine, I will be reading this in weeks, and not think Marley is good. My ideas from last time say, it is Mercedes + Kurt or Mercedes + April, probably with April, but I think from that, the best vote is Mercedes, either way has her.

vote: Mercedes Jones

-Ok, the Blaine comment is entirely unnecessary, and strikes me as scum saying things to appear better.

Honestly, this hasn't been that useful in constructing my argument, but hopefully if need be, I included it more so there's a little evidence there. I'll summarise:

Emma's posting reveals a desire to get people lynched, rather than hunt for scum- she's been bringing weak points and only selectively responds when they receive a response, often responding in such a manner to cast the person in a more negative light, rather than strengthening her case. She is either unable to properly support her case (Though if this were the case, why would she stick to it?), or does not have any interest in doing so (This is a huge scum indicator to me, it suggests she does not want to determine who's scum). Often she will merely reiterate her points, instead of developing better ones. Not to mention she often characterises people as bad or scummy and nothing more

Her reads of other players on page 27 practically just lists things that could be interpreted as scummy- there is no evidence of any deeper thinking than that, which at this stage of the game is absolutely necessary.

Furthermore, there is her voting pattern on D4- she consistently waits until there is a substantial amount of momentum against someone before she votes, each time putting them at L-1. These are the biggest points, I think

by Mercedes Jones Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:12 am

Holy fuck, I really should've put some more spoiler tags in there. Sorry about that

Sorry Dave, I didn't properly read through, but it came across in that post that you were hammering again on the basis of a half-formed opinion. Looking back I can see that you did provide your reasoning, but yeah, it was more the way it seemed like you were hammering without having looked through everything.

April can you provide some context for where I commented on not laying down a vote? It might help me answer the question better.
As it is, I'd say taking time to develop an opinion is fine, as long they're obviously making an effort to uncover evidence that will help this do so. Otherwise it is indistinguishable from not laying down a vote, which is generally scummy.

Also Kurt, how does it make sense to be careful with our vote if it's the only weapon we've got? It's not as though we can only use it a finite amount of times, and as you say, it's all the town's got- why would we not use it?

by Kurt Hummel Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:51 pm

Im sorry to disappoint you Dave and April but I am a townie and you both will be especially annoyed when you see that.

I almost accept Dave's points against me but April's reasons are more confusing that she thinks my posts are!

To paraphrase Jesse I am reading every post here and looking into all of them, unfortunately this means that everyone is now very close together on my lists and so that is where the confusion may arise from.

Secondly my posts try to be concise and use the BEST evidence for and against each person. This means I do not post massive walls of text: see Mercedes posts on Emma which do have some good points in though the rest is just filler drivel to make Mercedes look town.

April you did say that you were going to change your vote, but why vote me in the first place anyway? This was just after Sunshine posted a whole lot on me and emma and seb which in my opinion was fairly inconclusive and i will come onto that however your vote seems very opportunistic and youre using that as evidence against Sunshine! Seriously make YOUR mind up.

Onto Dave now. Am I concerned with catching scum? Er yeah read my posts instead of assuming. Just because I don’t have a big sign with “I am now scumhunting in Person ‘x’s posts” doesn’t mean that I don’t. I try to start discussions and add to them instead of just posting immaterially on one person.
“pretty much only defending himself” Isnt that what one is supposed to do when allegations are put against them. This type of post has only been recently and I have proved without a doubt that they are false, however due to this type of response to questions I am portrayed as scum?? It’s not even that my posts are just that, I have points in them against people, and for people showing that I am not just doing one thing and trying to do everything. And FYI posting tl;drs is not what I do, I may summarise things but I put EVIDENCE in them. It is making posts that are easy to read and follow so that everyone can understand my arguments put forward. Someone who is town should not just post huge walls of text with thousands of quotes just to pick out the tinyest detail. Even if townspeople do this it is not a good approach. That forces people to do tl;drs which aren’t helpful at all.

I also try to help other peoples cases as well which is where I feel that Sunshine’s entire point against me is flawed. She picked out examples where I helped people she thought was scum and therefore associated me with them. But I have done that with practically all other people in the game, even with Marley I had why she probably wasn’t scum in addition to why I thought she was. The fact that I didn’t vote was even though I said top scumread it was during that point where I had almost the same amount of for and against each person, I don’t only look at scum stuff I look at town stuff as well and marley had a tiny bit more against her. But I needed to accept that I might not have found everything. I don’t want to do what people like April have done where they voted someone and said they would change on new evidence. What April has done is far worse than mine is that I actually use what people have found to come to a judgement in addition to my own. Which is instead of her tactic which appears to be using other people’s ideas. Mine may be more apparent but hers is far more scummy.

So April is looking worse than me in my opinion over this issue.

Just came across this:

Emma Pillsbury wrote:If thats what Jesse posts when he's dead, I want to
Vote: Mike Chang

I believe this acts as one of the main pieces against Emma. What Jesse posted was practically useless however Emma clearly thinks that it must be true. But then she has what looks like really thought through reads in these past few days. It doesn’t add up. What must have happened is Emma sees an opportunity to try and lynch seer and try to get everyone to follow.
This doesn’t work clearly so goes with Sunshine and votes Finn. She then tries to say why Finn is a likely Mike partner which looks like a subtle attempt to push focus back onto Mike being ww.
Everyone just keeps posting the same stuff on Emma so needs something fresh ^^
This supports Mercedes’ point on Emma’s desire to get people lynched. I don’t believe that this may be an anti-town thing though this vote against Mike should show a scummy side to it

vote emma pillsbury

by Emma Pillsbury Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:30 pm

I made a mistake, I lost a big big post, I will make it again, but DO NOT HAMMER, it is Mercedes and April.

by Emma Pillsbury Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:12 pm

I think I have all my points, sorry there are no quotes, it is going faster now.

I was wrong, with Marley + April, it is clear now, but I did not know why. If it is them, they need 3 town to lynch, I thought I am 1, but a team with them had no plan, how to get the 2. I saw Mercedes and April now, I saw their plan, it is clever, but not so careful, I went to look for more. It is in day 4, there is evidence since Finn died, they get daytalk and make a plan--

Look on day 4, April says Mercedes is town, just at the start, Mercedes votes her, not a big point here, then says most of her opinion is wrong, day 2 April is not bad, so the vote can go off soon. I see April is bad, I think the other one is Marley, but I vote for her, this is l-1, a real vote to lynch, the next post from Mercedes is to get the vote away. Before she does, Sunshine posts a big thing, it is me + Kurt or April + Marley, Mercedes gets a smart idea here. She wants to get Marley, to say not April, then vote me and Kurt, and she buddies Sunshine to do it. She votes for me, but not a vote for a lynch, Marley is on 2 votes so she is the lynch, and Mercedes says "vote Marley or Emma", a distance from the vote, to setup me for now. Mercedes buddies Dave, she wants to vote Marley, me, Kurt, so he can help the bad team.

On starting Day 5, Mercedes says to talk about Marley as town, and does not, this is a way to say, someone else say April can't be bad, from Sunshine's idea on the team, but does not say it herself. She votes on Kurt, saying to pressure, this is for day 6, not a real vote now, she will switch on me. We tunnel to eachother, votes for me, I think says to April to follow it, but Sunshine votes me, with 2 votes April can setup day 6, vote for Kurt. Marley makes a big post for more votes, the idea is get someone to vote me, not April, so they do not look the same.

Mercedes says that April is town, I am mafia, and the reasons are--April looks bad day 1, I look bad day 1, April looks nothing day 2, (Mercedes had to say, the posts without content are not bad, to make this up), I look nothing day 2, April looks good day 3 and 4, I look good day 3 and 4, the point is clear.

If you think what Dave says, don't find the team, find the people one by one, Mercedes has posted more, and her reasons are hipocritical points, the point with me and April is one, these are some other ones-- (I was working here, when I lost the post, the first part was bigger but I feel, I need to be faster, it takes long to be easy to read)

-She says my day 4 votes are bad, she was not the first vote on any one. I did not vote April before, because my first post it was late, if it was the last day I didn't want a mistake, my second post is the vote, I knew we had more days in case. I have voted first almost every vote, she is not so good, only day 1 (random), day 3 (I think, she thought I was the wolf, she says mafia wants the wolf (there is a point here, for later), day 5 (on Kurt was "pressure", not a lynch, on me is in the plan with April). She will use this point on Kurt, in day 6, to mislynch and win, which is another point--

-On Kurt, I had not just lists, but a big idea, I was wrong, he is town (I do not want to vote him, even to save me from a lynch, I don't know what to do, Mercedes and April will win this if I die, they vote me if I lynch Kurt), she says I have no analising, this is wrong there. She will use my analise on Kurt, for a lynch day 6, win with April, and prove she is wrong on me with it.

-She says, if I talk to everyone, it is a bad sign on me, her last post on me is all like that, "she did this" not "you did this", it is talking to others, and just insults. It is like Blaine or Jesse, Blaine was town but not smart like Mercedes, it is desperate. if she can't set Kurt up for day 6, you can find her and April, even if I can't talk, so she needs a third vote on me, and not April. If she is town, there is no despereate thought, I am lynched already.

-She voted Sebastian, day 1, a small argument, she did not think it was a lynch, but "pressure" like Kurt. I had a small argument, I need time then to make it big, and I vote Blaine, my biggest bad read. Its better, to not vote on a small point, then vote on a small point, and I would make a big one if I voted. My day 1 post for all the players says Blaine, Sebastian, Finn, Jesse, Dave, Mercedes and Marley and Mike, Sunshine, I vote in this order before day 4, with a new post like it.

by Emma Pillsbury Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:59 pm

I almost forgot--If I am lynched, the question was about, if the mafia wanted to find Finn. I think Mercedes is right of day 2, they can get Jesse, (inactives are still bad though), but maybe not day 3. If they are easy to lynch, this nightless is bad, the town won't be killed at night. If they look good, this is good, no Werewolf to kill them, they want the real Werewolf. I don't know if Mercedes changed on me, the early day 3 vote of me to the late vote for Finn, she may wanted to protect April from lynch day 4.

It doesn't matter now, Im almost sure it's those ones, as sure as I can be, from the last page here.

Kurt, it was a bad vote, I should have switched on Finn, when I didn't know, but I think mafia wants to blend in. Your idea is, I want to find the real guy, then switch on Seer for fun, when he will die to the last Werewolf, I look bad for nothing. This is how town Marley is crazy, she does what i would do as mafia, find a wagon vote and stay to it.

by Emma Pillsbury Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:41 pm

Good luck, in lylo!

by Dave Karofsky Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:16 pm

i feel like emmas response to being in lylo has been pretty solid for the most part. like actually trying to be helpful and stuff and seems pretty town.
however the thing that bothers me the most about it all is why isnt she voting kurt. like i mean i admire sticking to your guns and all but i dont feel like a townie could believe as firmly as emma does that shes found the scumteam. i know if i were in emmas shoes i would be voting kurt simply because to myself i am a confirmed townie and kurt is not so even if i think theres only a slight chance hes scum theres still a greater chance that he is than i am. so yeah its weird to me that she isnt voting kurt.
just seems to me like shes trying too hard to "seem" town. im just worried shes "saying" she wont switch to earn one more town vote on kurt and if she gets it shell end up voting him too.
however as ive said emma simply views this game differently than the rest of us so that could just be all this is.

by Emma Pillsbury Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:52 pm

I don't know what to do, I don't want to lynch someone, if I think he is town. That is not a firm decision, I was going to be asleep now, and I am here. I haven't had this problem often, maybe never, it is hard to decide it. If I am getting lynched I will keep this for points, I want to get votes for April and Mercedes, if another goes on Kurt I feel bad any way. I wrote the post with 2 votes, with 3 it is harder to say, now i can't sleep.

It is like me in day 4, I did not want a lynch to come at night, where I can't talk against it, if Kurt is town (I am pretty sure) I don't want it to him either. It is a moral thing, I guess, I don't want to do it, I hate to have to.

by Ian Brennan Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:27 am

Emma Pillsbury (3) - Mercedes Jones, Sunshine Corazon, Kurt Hummel (L-1)
April Rhodes (0) -
Dave Karofsky (0) -
Sunshine Corazon (0) -
Kurt Hummel (2) - April Rhodes, Dave Karofsky (L-2)
Mercedes Jones (1) - Emma Pillsbury (L-3)

6 people are playing. 4 votes are required to lynch a player.

Because this setup is nightless, if no player reaches 4 votes before the deadline, plurality will apply and the player with the most votes on them will be lynched.

In the event of a tie between players, whoever received the most votes first (measured starting with the last time they were affected by a vote or unvote) will be lynched.

If the deadline were to occur right now, Emma Pillsbury would be lynched.

Deadline is Tuesday, July 23 at 07:00 GMT +0, approximately 2.5 hours from now.

by Sunshine Corazon Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:28 am

Anyone else around?

Farr

Honestly I have no freaking clue right now.

I really disliked april's reaction to the emma wagon, because it felt to me as if she was saying they were weak to incriminate people when she flipped town (as in that would be scum april's thought process).

Would be willing to vote her

@dave; what is your read on emma after her defence l-1, you didn't really make a conclusion just said it could be this or this.
Also I mean i have been busy the whole game so sorry if that response was crap to you but I dunno what to say; it wasn't fabricated? And looking at that post seb still makes little judgement and doesn't push on finn at all.

Also gut reads =/= anything necessarily concrete.

Brb will try post in a bit in regards to emmas last few posts.

by Dave Karofsky Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:06 am

ive said all along i really dont feel like emma is scum. i just feel like shes got a different take on stuff and so its easy to say "her reads are off" and shit.
like i said her l-1 posts were pretty damn good. like i actually see her case against mercedes and its making more sense to me than it has in the past. and most of all the fact that shes going for everyones top townread would just make no sense from a scum perspective. i feel like her and her partner would try and push the lynch on someone else.
i would also be willing to lynch april so hopefully ppl get on with 55 mins left

by April Rhodes Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:17 am

Mercedes wrote:
What on Earth led you to believe I simply sat back and waited for everyone else to post their thoughts before I shared mine? It took me a while to develop my perspective, but I was asking questions, applying pressure, which is what you suggest should make us view you as town. So you're either misrepresenting events or you're implementing a double-standard.

I take a while to form my opinions because I want to be right. I want to lynch scum and developing a strong, well-thought case is of critical importance to accurately lynch scum.

mercedes wrote:
Kurt, why did you not use your vote? I mean, you had ample opportunity to use it.

mercedes wrote: Also Kurt, how does it make sense to be careful with our vote if it's the only weapon we've got?

Reading back, this doesn’t look so bad, but I believe I felt that at the time there was an implication of scuminess on Kurt’s part. I guess I want to know what’s the difference with taking your team to come up with opinions and not laying down a vote? That being said, it is my personal opinion that both are scummy (one can’t be scummy, other not). The longer it takes to form an opinion the worse it looks. Not placing a vote w/o validly explaining why doesn’t cut it either. “Being unsure,” while a nice excuse, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t throw down a vote on your top read atm. Ugh, I feel I’m a bit off base here, but I think that about sums up what I’m trying to get at.

Sunshine, you still haven’t addressed Dave’s absence in your day 1 notes.

sunshine wrote: because it felt to me as if she was saying they were weak to incriminate people when she flipped town (as in that would be scum april's thought process).

The point is that your read is biased because it doesn’t include dave. There’s nothing wrong with presenting an argument on someone, but when you omit someone on purpose it doesn’t look good.

Kurt, why does my vote look opportunistic? You are my number scum read at the time and thus I voted you. I’m staking a claim that you are the most likely to be scum, something which seems to be more difficult for you. There is nothing opportunistic about it.

And as much as I think Emma is scum, your argument on how she voted Mike makes no sense at all (another example on posts being unclear & unhelpful). I don’t get the argument on “wanting to get people lynched,” and claiming that “she voted Mike and then voted Finn because a Mike lynch wasn’t working,” doesn’t make sense logically for me. How does saying “finn is likely mike partner” equivalent to pushing the lynch back on to mike ?? yeah, I don’t buy that argument.

Emma is still bad, and I’d hammer her but her l-1 posts were good I admit, even though they implicate me. The fact that she didn’t vote Kurt seems to indicate a willingness to stick with her reads and only follow a lynch she believes will hit scum (albeit her scum reads I disagree with lol). She makes a lot of claims backing them up with “that’s my opinion,” and no reasoning means they aren’t worth much. For instance she says how no day 2 content is bad but she doesn’t state why?? this is a recurring theme and that lack of explanation (as well as that read on Sebastian) is why I think she’s scum.

Dave, that null read changed pretty quickly lol. Why ?? In fact, I feel you’ve been going back and forth on a lot of stuff (see: kurt and daveometer)

I feel confident on Kurt, but my second choice would be on emma. if you guys aren't interested in a kurt lynch, I will hammer emma within 15 to 30 minutes (in case anyone else decides to show up)

by Dave Karofsky Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:25 am

its not so much my read on you changing but my read on emma. i feel shes town at this point and thus would rather lynch someone im more unsure about (i.e. you or sunshine). considering people on at the deadline im trying to figure out who we can reasonably get a lynch on.
so ya id rather lynch 1) kurt 2) sunshine who i dont think has done a good job at all of responding to my accusations or 3) you over april.
if you think i flip flopped on kurt than lol. just cuz someone was low on the daveometer doesnt make them clean. i think its reasonable enough for me to weigh scummy day 4 or w/e play in on my scumreads outside of just based on their interactions with seb yes? if you think my scumread on kurt is unsufficiently explained then thats something else but i feel like ive gone into enough as to why i feel hes scum outside of his day 1 interactions with seb.

by Dave Karofsky Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:27 am

*over emma
not over april
also *then not than

wow stream of consciousness im not being all that articulate so sorry

by Dave Karofsky Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:28 am

oh wow just realized sunshine voting kurt could change the lynch.
that sounds like the best option imo.
april simply dont hammer and give sunshine the chance to switch should she deem it appropriate

by Ian Brennan Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:02 am

Emma Pillsbury (3) - Mercedes Jones, Sunshine Corazon, Kurt Hummel (L-1)
April Rhodes (0) -
Dave Karofsky (0) -
Sunshine Corazon (0) -
Kurt Hummel (2) - April Rhodes, Dave Karofsky (L-2)
Mercedes Jones (1) - Emma Pillsbury (L-3)

6 people are playing. 4 votes are required to lynch a player.

Because this setup is nightless, if no player reaches 4 votes before the deadline, plurality will apply and the player with the most votes on them will be lynched.

In the event of a tie between players, whoever received the most votes first (measured starting with the last time they were affected by a vote or unvote) will be lynched.

DAY 5 RESULT:

by Ian Brennan Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:05 am

April Rhodes (0) -
Dave Karofsky (0) -
Sunshine Corazon (0) -
Kurt Hummel (0) -
Mercedes Jones (0) -

5 people are playing. 3 votes are required to lynch a player.

Because this setup is nightless, if no player reaches 3 votes before the deadline, plurality will apply and the player with the most votes on them will be lynched.

In the event of a tie between players, whoever received the most votes first (measured starting with the last time they were affected by a vote or unvote) will be lynched.

If the deadline were to occur right now, Kurt Hummel would be lynched (having had the most votes from yesterday).

Deadline is Friday, July 26 at 07:00 GMT +0, approximately 3 days from now.

Day 6 begins now.

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