Jungle Republic - Game Over

Game Information:

april wrote:Kurt for the most part feels to me like he’s town, but he seems to have a connection with Marley that is suspicious to me. His early play did not bode well for him, but recent posts suggest a town outlook. I think it’s important to continue to watch his relationship with Marley.

april wrote:kurt is making no sense me and dave bussing highlighting the confusing nature and near worthlessness of his posts. flying under the radar in sense no real pressure on him. scum right now.

april wrote:Kurt, why does my vote look opportunistic? You are my number scum read at the time and thus I voted you. I’m staking a claim that you are the most likely to be scum, something which seems to be more difficult for you. There is nothing opportunistic about it.

And as much as I think Emma is scum, your argument on how she voted Mike makes no sense at all (another example on posts being unclear & unhelpful). I don’t get the argument on “wanting to get people lynched,” and claiming that “she voted Mike and then voted Finn because a Mike lynch wasn’t working,” doesn’t make sense logically for me. How does saying “finn is likely mike partner” equivalent to pushing the lynch back on to mike ?? yeah, I don’t buy that argument.

Emma is still bad, and I’d hammer her but her l-1 posts were good I admit, even though they implicate me. The fact that she didn’t vote Kurt seems to indicate a willingness to stick with her reads and only follow a lynch she believes will hit scum (albeit her scum reads I disagree with lol). She makes a lot of claims backing them up with “that’s my opinion,” and no reasoning means they aren’t worth much. For instance she says how no day 2 content is bad but she doesn’t state why?? this is a recurring theme and that lack of explanation (as well as that read on Sebastian) is why I think she’s scum.

Dave Karofsky wrote:was looking back over the past few days and found this interesting.
april basically had emma as her second scumread day.. whatever it was.. and marley as her top one the day marley got lynched. during that day she said this:

april wrote:Kurt for the most part feels to me like he’s town, but he seems to have a connection with Marley that is suspicious to me. His early play did not bode well for him, but recent posts suggest a town outlook. I think it’s important to continue to watch his relationship with Marley.

basically her reasoning for why kurt might be scum seems largely contingent on the possibility that marley might be scum. and we all know how marley flipped!
so one would think that after the flip april might back off kurt somewhat. however she ended up voting him!
now granted kurt did look pretty scummy to me as well but april provided very minimal reasoning for her change in opinion on him.

here is all i could find in that regard.

april wrote:kurt is making no sense me and dave bussing highlighting the confusing nature and near worthlessness of his posts. flying under the radar in sense no real pressure on him. scum right now.

april wrote:Kurt, why does my vote look opportunistic? You are my number scum read at the time and thus I voted you. I’m staking a claim that you are the most likely to be scum, something which seems to be more difficult for you. There is nothing opportunistic about it.

And as much as I think Emma is scum, your argument on how she voted Mike makes no sense at all (another example on posts being unclear & unhelpful). I don’t get the argument on “wanting to get people lynched,” and claiming that “she voted Mike and then voted Finn because a Mike lynch wasn’t working,” doesn’t make sense logically for me. How does saying “finn is likely mike partner” equivalent to pushing the lynch back on to mike ?? yeah, I don’t buy that argument.

Emma is still bad, and I’d hammer her but her l-1 posts were good I admit, even though they implicate me. The fact that she didn’t vote Kurt seems to indicate a willingness to stick with her reads and only follow a lynch she believes will hit scum (albeit her scum reads I disagree with lol). She makes a lot of claims backing them up with “that’s my opinion,” and no reasoning means they aren’t worth much. For instance she says how no day 2 content is bad but she doesn’t state why?? this is a recurring theme and that lack of explanation (as well as that read on Sebastian) is why I think she’s scum.

so i agree her vote on kurt was pretty opportunistic looking back.
what strikes me as even more off though is the fact that she had emma as her #2 scumread both days but both days she seemed to be passively attempting to push the vote onto someone else. all while maintaining emma was her #2 scumread.

ive also made several other points against april but to reiterate:
1)her "switching up" the reads of seb and kurt was weird although impossible to prove/disprove
2)her redefinition of tunneling was extremely scummy to me
3)emma putting her at l-1 in the middle of the day and then unvoting was strange
4)i dont think ive made this point yet but i thought it was weird that emma had a marley/april listed which changed to a mercedes/arpil one after the marley flip. but her vote was on mercedes which seems strange like if youre trying to seem town why not vote the common denominator? unless you dont reallllly want to cause a lynch on your partner but simply want them to look better after your flip.

Emma Pillsbury wrote:Another Blaine, I will be reading this in weeks, and not think Marley is good. My ideas from last time say, it is Mercedes + Kurt or Mercedes + April, probably with April, but I think from that, the best vote is Mercedes, either way has her.

vote: Mercedes Jones

april wrote:Yeah I did provide minimal reasoning considering I had a lot more but I lost it so I just summed it up. Guess you didn't look over that too closely? In fact I noticed you specifically removed that part of my post. OK. If you really looked at what I said, you would notice that I noticed a connection that I felt was suspicious. I noted that I felt Kurt's past posting was poor but that recent posts that day gave him a more town outlook. Even though I did not outright state that later, I think it's a pretty clear assumption that his later posts reversed that trend.

Opportunistic? How can that be opportunistic when I was the first to vote him back on the day Emma was lynched? Opportunistic to continue voting who I thought was most like to be scum?

You usually push your number one scumread. In fact, I was about to hammer eMma and had declared my intent to hammer before you posted telling me to not to. Nice detail you forgot.

april wrote:1. It was a legitimate mistake and obviously there is no way to disprove that which really blows. I can't do much about it, but if we lose because of it I will be v. mad sigh.

2. So are you trying to say that mafiascum is an unreliable source for mafia terminology? I mean, I don't treat the site like a gospel, but in general, I would like to say they do know what they are doing. My clarification cleared up any miscommunication we had, so unless you are saying that mafiascum has no credible I don't get your point. And if you do think it isn't credible then I'll have to leave that to others to decide.

3. This is equivalent to saying "using your vote is strange." Would this be different if Emma had flipped village? I don't really see what's unreasonable given that townies use their vote since it is their only weapon, and given that the mafia is trying to blend in with the village they would do the same as well.

4. I would call this a stretch. I mean it's really all WIFOM, what if Emma assumed that you would figure that out and did that opposite etc? More plausibly, what if Emma did that on purpose so you could point that out to make me look worse?

The actions of Dave and his predecessor look the worst at the moment. The day 1 hammer isn't good considering the fact he said it would take him a while to figure out what to do, followed by an immediate hammer. And then there's the fact that he tried very hard to save Emma. It seems like a risky move that they probably thought could pay off due to Dave's upward trending stock (being seen as town), which makes sense given the situation (a partner getting lynched = 1 more mislynch). It seems like a risk the mafia could afford to take in that situation.

There's also the part where Emma probably talks about dave the least, which is usually how mafia tries to avoid any sort of connection-making - just by avoiding talking about each other, they disassociate from each other, something which seems like a very real possibility in this case.

Bits and pieces about Sunshine:

Dave Karofsky wrote:

april wrote:Yeah I did provide minimal reasoning considering I had a lot more but I lost it so I just summed it up. Guess you didn't look over that too closely? In fact I noticed you specifically removed that part of my post. OK. If you really looked at what I said, you would notice that I noticed a connection that I felt was suspicious. I noted that I felt Kurt's past posting was poor but that recent posts that day gave him a more town outlook. Even though I did not outright state that later, I think it's a pretty clear assumption that his later posts reversed that trend.

Opportunistic? How can that be opportunistic when I was the first to vote him back on the day Emma was lynched? Opportunistic to continue voting who I thought was most like to be scum?

You usually push your number one scumread. In fact, I was about to hammer eMma and had declared my intent to hammer before you posted telling me to not to. Nice detail you forgot.

i didnt "specifically remove" anything from your post. i hate the passive implication that this is scummy (its not) and that you dont actually bother calling me out on it (prolly cuz you know its bs).
i simply quoted the part where you provided actual reasoning which was as you conceed was minimal. any "oh shit i lost my post" segment preceeding it is simply an outside factor that can neither be proven or disproven so i really am trying not to read into it either way. hence why i didnt include it.
even if you did lose your post this doesnt excuse the fact that you provided very little with regards to your shift from "i think kurt is town unless hes marleys partner" (def paraphrasing) to "hes scum". im not saying that such a shift couldnt be warranted based on his play just that you did not explain it at all which i find to be very antitown.

So all of a sudden there's this double standard that applies to me that did not apply to anyone else? Alright that's grade A bullshit.  I actually directly said that you didn't put that part in, so not sure what you are getting at with the "passive implication." By not including it because it is an "outside factor" is ridiculous. I fail to see how this is any different from Marley saying the same thing multiple times but no one called her out? I did explain the shift even though you keep saying I didn't. Just because you ignore the stuff I post doesn't mean it isn't there.

i guess opportunistic was the wrong word. what i was trying to convey was that it seemed strange to me you would vote kurt following the marley flip when based on your reads it would seem emma would be your top scumread. so it seemed to me like you were placing your vote on someone who people were suspicious of but who wasnt your scumpartner.
again the "nice detail you forgot" bit is more passive implication of my scumminess. but i dont really understand how you could think i look scummy for telling you not to hammer. i mean if you were really town and you actually had kurt as a higher scumread than emma wouldnt you want to hold off the hammer for the possibility that sunshine would switch and we would end up lynching your top scumread as well? the fact that you werent fighting for a lynch of your top scumread over your number two makes me think you were more concerned with bussing rather than actually lynching scum. and the fact that you imply im scum over this makes me think youre more concerned with forcing another mislynch than actually thinking things through from a town perspective.

Quit it with the "passive implication" bullcrap, there's nothing passive as I am being straight out honest. The snide remarks and the overall tone of "blah blah blah you dare call me out over something like that - preposterous!" is getting old. I wanted to hammer because both were fairly scummy to me, with kurt being moreso. There wasn't any reason not to hammer, and I didn't think sunshine was coming back, but you did, so I honored your request because I felt either outcome was probably ok. Saying I was more concerned with bussing and not lynching scum doesn't make sense because why the fuck would I be "concerned with bussing" when I'm a villager. Villagers don't bus. Kurt and Emma were always up there, 1 and 2, for my scumreads, and the fact that they switched shouldn't be a big deal, but I guess people love reading into shit that isn't there lol.

april wrote:1. It was a legitimate mistake and obviously there is no way to disprove that which really blows. I can't do much about it, but if we lose because of it I will be v. mad sigh.

2. So are you trying to say that mafiascum is an unreliable source for mafia terminology? I mean, I don't treat the site like a gospel, but in general, I would like to say they do know what they are doing. My clarification cleared up any miscommunication we had, so unless you are saying that mafiascum has no credible I don't get your point. And if you do think it isn't credible then I'll have to leave that to others to decide.

3. This is equivalent to saying "using your vote is strange." Would this be different if Emma had flipped village? I don't really see what's unreasonable given that townies use their vote since it is their only weapon, and given that the mafia is trying to blend in with the village they would do the same as well.

4. I would call this a stretch. I mean it's really all WIFOM, what if Emma assumed that you would figure that out and did that opposite etc? More plausibly, what if Emma did that on purpose so you could point that out to make me look worse?

The actions of Dave and his predecessor look the worst at the moment. The day 1 hammer isn't good considering the fact he said it would take him a while to figure out what to do, followed by an immediate hammer. And then there's the fact that he tried very hard to save Emma. It seems like a risky move that they probably thought could pay off due to Dave's upward trending stock (being seen as town), which makes sense given the situation (a partner getting lynched = 1 more mislynch). It seems like a risk the mafia could afford to take in that situation.

There's also the part where Emma probably talks about dave the least, which is usually how mafia tries to avoid any sort of connection-making - just by avoiding talking about each other, they disassociate from each other, something which seems like a very real possibility in this case.

1)this isnt even the bulk of my argument so small nitpick: i dont like how you imply it would be the reason "we lose"
2)im not at all saying that. are you even reading my argument? the fact of the matter is you provided "my definition" of tunneling when you called blaine out on it and then proceeded to say i was "misguided" about what tunneling meant and provided the mafiascum definition after i demonstrated a similar grasp of the concept of tunneling later. basically i think its very scummy that you used one definition to attack blaine and another definition to defend yourself and even recognized that the two definitions were quite different.
3)ill try ane expand on this in response to mercedes as well in a bit
4)mercedes made a good point on this so ill retract it. just through it out there and turns out i was off.

1 - But how is that true when previously all you have said against me involves this? Only now are you bringing up more shit (largely irrelevant but w/e)

2 - How hypocritical - you say this isn't a large part of your argument but you keep bringing it up. I've already explained this but I don't care to repeat it since you obviously have a very poor grasp of the English language.

3 - no response "lol"

4 - "I was wrong" "lol"

i do think the term wifom is thrown around a bit too much though. i feel like a lot of mafia can be construed as wifom and most of the game is really how you interpret it. like i could simply say that youre argument on emma talking the least about me is wifom. and that she could have done so in order for you to bring it up and cast aspersions on me. but if we are gonna constantly use these as a defense it basically amounts to "everything is speculation and everything can simply be scum leaving a false trail so lets just not talk about this game at all!"
but thats just a playstyle thing. rant over.

So are you trying to say something or what ?? If you are trying to say everything that happens is speculation you are quite "misguided" and pretty much wrong. Dunno what else to tell you. sorry

Whatever Mercedes should probably just hammer me considering sunshine isn't coming back and so even if she voted dave I would die based on the timing of the vote. can't believe you guys are going to mislynch again but oh well I guess I deserve it for playing like a shithead rofl! I can't tell if it's sunshine or dave but I guess that will be fun to figure out in lylo

April Rhodes wrote:Kurt, why does my vote look opportunistic? You are my number scum read at the time and thus I voted you. I’m staking a claim that you are the most likely to be scum, something which seems to be more difficult for you. There is nothing opportunistic about it.

And as much as I think Emma is scum, your argument on how she voted Mike makes no sense at all (another example on posts being unclear & unhelpful). I don’t get the argument on “wanting to get people lynched,” and claiming that “she voted Mike and then voted Finn because a Mike lynch wasn’t working,” doesn’t make sense logically for me. How does saying “finn is likely mike partner” equivalent to pushing the lynch back on to mike ?? yeah, I don’t buy that argument.

Emma is still bad, and I’d hammer her but her l-1 posts were good I admit, even though they implicate me. The fact that she didn’t vote Kurt seems to indicate a willingness to stick with her reads and only follow a lynch she believes will hit scum (albeit her scum reads I disagree with lol). She makes a lot of claims backing them up with “that’s my opinion,” and no reasoning means they aren’t worth much. For instance she says how no day 2 content is bad but she doesn’t state why?? this is a recurring theme and that lack of explanation (as well as that read on Sebastian) is why I think she’s scum.
...
I feel confident on Kurt, but my second choice would be on emma. if you guys aren't interested in a kurt lynch, I will hammer emma within 15 to 30 minutes (in case anyone else decides to show up)