Less Pressure - Game Over

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Guess its time to pick up where we left off.

Vote Noah Puckerman

I'll get down to scumhunting when its not so late. For now, I think its safe to say this guy is easily the scumiest dude on the block.

Give opinions and such

Should've switched my vote when I had the chance smh.

Vote Noah Puckerman

Interesting to see how Quinn's read on me shifted, and considering I feel one or two of her points had misrepresented intent had I read those things around the deadline I would've called up some hard questions.

Oh and to draw some pertinent opinions out of people;

@Kitty - What do you think of Quinn's posts in retrospect to their flip? Specifically asking you since you were the one who reminded us analysing post-flip would be more constructive.

@Tina - With the exclusion of Noah, who would you say stands as the two most 'scummy' players? (Honestly I don't think it would be detrimental to the Town for everyone to make a post on this one)

Welp, looks like that wasn't my final post. That kinda sucks. and we're in lylo, yay.

Santana Lopez has been replaced due to inactivity. A different user is now using the account.

Short post for now.

@Lauren: that's quite a question, and I'll get back to you when I have more time. I want to reread yesterday for suresies.

I would like Kitty to answer the same question though. Actually yeah I think Noah and Newtana should as well.

Also hi Newtana. You've got some big shoes to fill~~ thoughts on th game and your predecessor and such?

@Lauren are you saying you woulda preferred a Noah lynch yesterday?
@Kitty you never really voiced an opinion on yesterdays lynch iirc. If this isn't the case point me in the right direction, but if so why was this and what were your thoughts?

I like how it appears Noah might be being careful about avoiding active lurking by just not checking the thread at all~~

Tina Cohen-Chang wrote:@Lauren are you saying you woulda preferred a Noah lynch yesterday?

In hindsight, definitely. At the time, I was hinging on shifting my vote, but that last exchange between you and Quinn convinced me to leave it where it was. But, hindsight is a bitch I guess. Until Noah responds I'm leaving my vote where it is, and I want to see some posting from Newtana before figuring a read on her since I want to give benefit of the doubt here to an extent.

Quinn's analysis is quite an interesting read, making me think that Noah has a high chance of being mafioso. I wouldn't rule out Tina just yet Constant vigilance, though she DOES seemingly prove many good points.

might make another post later, but I was busy for quite a while and am still semi-busy-ish

I guess I didn't explicitly say it but Quinn was my second choice, no one really wanted the Noah lynch in the end, but since the mod said it was plurality my vote wasn't needed (but after I saw Tina's vote I was ready to provide plurality if needed cause if there was one more unvote it would've been a tie between Tina and Quinn and I would vote Quinn).

Basically my read on Quinn was near the top of page 3 and she didn't really improve from there (I respond to her a couple of times further down on page 3 - if my posts per page are the same as yours). And in my last post I mentioned her pairing up possible scum which I thought pretty restricting and had possible scum motivation, although she flipped town so I guess that theory is flawed.

I'll have to answer Lauren's question (specifically directed to me) later cause it's a lot. As for the general question I say Noah and Lauren. That question is pretty difficult though considering there's only three people other than yourself (if you're not an IC) that you'll call scum.

Okay I've never been in LYLO but my understanding is that if I vote now and we're wrong then scum can just hammer and that's game. So that's why I'm not voting even though I had voted Noah yesterday.

Kitty Wilde wrote:That question is pretty difficult though considering there's only three people other than yourself (if you're not an IC) that you'll call scum.

Can you expand on this? Not really sure what you're saying.

Also 4 votes required to lynch is pretty bs. I didn't realize this before but that means literally no one should have their vote on anyone at any point today, since it enables a well-organized scum team to drop a 1+3 hammer. So Lauren unvote please.

unvote

more coming when I have more time, I promise~~
~Tinasleepytime~

unvote Noah Puckerman as precaution against blitz hammer by scum.

“Can you expand on this? Not really sure what you're saying.”

Oh maybe difficult wasn’t the right word. I meant that since we (the non-ICs) only have three other people to choose from then giving “top two scum reads” doesn't necessarily mean we think both of them are scum. Actually it’s 4, forgot about Santana, but she didn’t say anything and her replacement I haven’t seen yet either.

Now, re: Quinn’s last few posts.

“I think it's likely that one of Lauren and Tina are scum, possibly both.”

If it had to be between the two, I’d have to pick Lauren, although Quinn was really urging us to lynch Tina (see below) so I’ll look into that later.

“One of Noah and Santana should be scum.”

I can agree with this. Have yet to see replacement so as of now I’d say Noah.

“I still think Tina is a better lynch D2 than Lauren.”

My personal reads disagree with this, but I’ll have to reread Tina’s posts.

“Do not lynch Santana D2. I would be wary of lynching Noah; at this point Town needs a meaningful flip if they want to lynch 2 straight mafia in a row (which is necessary as scum get a kill after the first mafia death).”

So she’s suggesting Tina – again, a thing to do after a re-read.

Okay looked over Quinn’s Lauren read again. She basically had the same opinion I had earlier about Lauren being a bit too conscious about parroting and such, and the fact that Lauren ignored Noah’s accusation of her parroting may be a little fishy though I agree he didn’t really have a right to when he was doing so in the very same post. Not sure about the scum pair comment, hard to find any evidence to back up Quinn thinking Lauren is bussing Noah when he’s made one post and the last post of Lauren on d1 has her favoring a Noah lynch.

I think I'll look into Tina tomorrow, peace out~

Catching up on everything so expect a post from me soon~

Kitty Wilde wrote:“Can you expand on this? Not really sure what you're saying.”

Oh maybe difficult wasn’t the right word. I meant that since we (the non-ICs) only have three other people to choose from then giving “top two scum reads” doesn't necessarily mean we think both of them are scum. Actually it’s 4, forgot about Santana, but she didn’t say anything and her replacement I haven’t seen yet either.

Actually, Lauren was asking me for two scum reads outside of Noah. Which I shall be giving shortly, once I re-read the entire day. So while I'm working on my answer, I'd like to ask you the same question: who are your top three scumreads?

Seems like Newtana is barely more active than oldtana.. sad to see Consistent lack of content between two players is pretty scummy.

got distracted, now I gotta eat.

I'm more than halfway through my tldr; its coming soon I promise.

Okay so looking back on day 1, I’m trying to take everything in with a fresh perspective in light of the Quinn flip and how that wagon unfolded. Instead of going all confirmation bias, I want to be challenging my former views on the game.

I figured the best way to format this post would be to simply separate it into notes on each player and comment on each as I go along, so here goes.

Player Notes:

Kitty Wilde: I know I’ve defended her for it in the past, but it is at least noteworthy that she so readily suggested I was villager page 1. Especially when

Kitty Wilde wrote:I'm not sure what Noah's doing voting a cleaned person. Might be trying to play a dumb troll but trust me that's not going to work, kiddo.

She implies that she finds Noah scummy but doesn’t “put her vote where her mouth is”. Eager to commit to town reads (buddying), less eager to commit to scumreads.

This continues to be a problem though page 2 and early page 3. Like at this point in the day her vote is still on Quinn from the RVS stage. I mean if her reasoning for leaving it there is because she thinks Quinn is scummy then that’s cool, but at the very least she should say this in order to add pressure. All in all she comes across as unwilling to use her vote in any way that would benefit the town through page 2 and half of page 3.

I also think it’s very weird that she continually seems to defend me but never really commits to a read. Non-committal-ness is still scummy.

I definitely don’t like this (https://poanon.forumotion.com/t12p75-less-pressure-day-1#548) post, for a few reasons. First of all, I don’t like that she discourages scumteam speculation as these sort of analysis are entirely valid. This could just be a weird playstyle thing but it seems kinda off. I also don’t like that she never really commited to a read on the accused Quinn when the lynch actually swung around, as I’ve said earlier. Plus there’s the whole thing with her not actually vocalizing the fact that she would have preferred a Noah lynch over Quinn’s. If you say it was pretty evident by the fact your vote was there, that’s untrue, since you really could have changed your vote whenever. A vote is nothing without reasoning, and town should be constantly providing reasoning for theirs. I had made it clear that I was willing to at least consider a Noah lynch over Quinn’s, but Kitty didn’t seem to be push at all for a lynch of her #1 rather than her #2. If I were town I’d definitely push for my #1, and she didn’t even vocalize that this was the case let alone push for it.

In all Kitty seems very active and attempting to contribute, but quite unwilling to commit to reads.

Lauren Zizes: Much has been made of her being overly-conscious of scum-tells. But after re-reading and thinking about it, I actually find it townish. If scum is aware that something they post has scummy overtures, they’re more likely to simply not post it. It seems more town to instead say something like “I know this might be seen as a scumtell, but this is what I think and I’m gonna put it forth anyways because it is legit my opinion”.

However it is noteworthy from my perspective at least that if Lauren is town then the entire town and no scum was on the Quinnwagon, which is somewhat hard for me to believe.

Actually I’m just now noticing that Lauren had taken her vote off of Quinn and put it on Noah (https://poanon.forumotion.com/t12p50-less-pressure-day-1#389) and unless I’m mistaken she never put it back on Quinn even though the votecount throughout the day showed it was there.. Please correct me if I’m wrong, which I very well may be, but shitty hosting might actually have affected the outcome of the game.. I mean I don’t know for sure if I would have chosen a Noah vote over Quinn but at the very least I woulda considered it had I known the votecount was different..

Also this looks pretty bad on Lauren. @ Lauren: How did you not notice this? Seems to me that town would always know where their vote is and your failure to mention it seems.. strange. Not really sure how this has scum/town implications, I’ll have to think about it more, but it is very off.

In all Lauren seems the most town to me. But I’m certainly not discounting the possibility she’s scum, and I am definitely confused by the vote thing.

Noah Puckerman: Even upon second read, his one post with content was probably the worst post of this game. In retrospect he really should have been our lynch target yesterday but hindsight is a bitch and he does have the VI feel. So many things are off: I know I said that the willingness to post despite recognizing scumtells actually seems kinda town to me, but the fact is that when Noah does this it is entirely inconsistent with his read on Lauren, which I find extremely scummy. That coupled with the fact that he claims to have taken time to come up with his own opinion and then proceeds to put forth nothing original looks bad to me.

Also lol promise of more analysis was never followed up on of course.

However it is puzzling to me that both Lauren and Kitty were willing to vote him. If he is scum then one scum partner at the very least is willing to bus him. This does give me at least a little pause when considering him as a lynch target.

Kitty’s exchange with Noah for the most part feels genuine, but I’m sure scum would be able to pull this off and I do think its notable that Kitty was the third person to vote Noah (after myself and Lauren) and thus I find this vote the most likely to be a bus. As I said, I also think it’s really weird that Kitty left her vote on Noah at the end of yesterday and despite knowing that I was at least considering a Noah lynch and had pushed people to discuss the possibility she did nothing to campaign for it. I could see this being scum sticking a vote on a partner, fully knowing that there was little likelihood they would be lynched, but refusing to commit to a read so that she would be safe to switch to Quinn if a Noah wagon started. So ya I see a Kitty/Noah scumteam as most likely.

Tina Cohen-Chang, bringing the hard-hitting analysis~~

Another less big post coming soon.

Where I want to go from here is to have everyone provide their order of preferred lynches. ICs should do this as well but I especially want to see this from “villagers”. Each should be accompanied with some sort of read label (i.e. strong town, leans town, null, leans scum, strong scum or w.e. system you want to use) and plenty of reasoning.

I definitely want Noah and Newtana to post these as well, at the cost of looking extremely scummy if they don’t. As I’ve stressed, unwillingness to commit to reads looks really bad, as does unwillingness to contribute in general (Newtana where’s that post you promised us??~~)

Here’s mine, from most scummy to least scummy:

1. Noah Puckerman: Strong scum. I will admit, a lot of my scumteam speculation is predicated on the strong possibility that Noah is scum. However this is due to the fact that I find his play this game extremely scummy. He has lurked, active lurked, posted one extremely scummy post and otherwise done nothing for the town. The only thing that makes me hesitate is the fact that if he’s scum, a partner has been bussing him, but his play so far this game has definitely merited a bus.
2. Kitty Wilde: Leans scum. She has entirely been unwilling to commit to reads, and I just now spoke a lot about things I felt were off about here posts based on a re-read of the thread. In all I think that while she’s been active I definitely feel like she’s been playing a typical cautious scum game. I’ve actually got more to say on her but I want to wait to see here list before this.
3. Newtana Lopez: Leans scum. Oldtana was completely inactive, Newtana has been more of the same outside of promising contribution and not following up. This looks extremely scummy because especially in a small game like this where only two mislynches are enough for a scumteam win, it makes it so its extremely hard to build up a case against her in such a short amount of time. Entirely against town interests.
4. Lauren Zizes: Null. I don’t find that much to be off about her, and she’s been pretty actively scumhunting. I do find the vote thing very perplexing so I want a good explanation there. As I said, they are a very experienced player and I definitely don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility they are scum, but I don’t have much of a case against them atm.

Can’t wait to see those reads from everyone!~~

Hi...I've been pretty busy and couldn't post as much as I would have liked to. Gonna read the posts soon. Also, is Day 1 over yet...if so, crap, sorry =(. And in regards to the one post I made earlier, yeah, I can see how everyone thought that was scummy. It was a pretty bad post. Oh, and if I'm lynched, gg. VT out.

Regardless of alignment, Noah deserves to die.

If Tina is scum, good job, I applaud you, and you deserve the win.

With regards to the Noah vote shift - I did have the distinct notion that I had changed my vote, but my head told me to trust the host's decision and assumed I had made a mistake with it, and at the time of realisation I would have readily shifted my vote from Noah to Quinn regardless, as (and I stress this was at the time of noticing), my 'top' scum read had shifted.

I'll do more actual shit later on today when I have time (this is a promise call me out if I fuck this up)

@Tina

Noah ~fairly scum
Lauren ~ slight scum
Santana, ~ literally null but I don’t get why a replacement wouldn’t have been more active, oh well.

I didn’t “readily suggest” you were villager, if you go back and see the post, I said it’s difficult to judge from the isolated post but I was leaning town for you from the early post.

In the quoted post you had I thought Noah voting an IC wasn’t exactly scummy but I said I was going to take note of it. Since it was the only post he made at that point I didn’t really count it against him, just not for him.

I don’t see where I was defending you? But I have to agree I didn’t say much about my vote, I just thought based on Quinn’s play it was fine to keep my vote on her until I voted Noah (which I feel I should have explained enough).

Scum team speculation I said I would’ve waited till after the flip.
And for the Quinn vote I guess I should have said I favored it cause it was my second choice.

New topic: Noah’s alive again! Except I really don’t like the last part of the post where he says “if you lynch me we lose cause I’m townie,” cause it seems like a really desperate preventive measure with no justification. Anyone could do that.

Think I might reread topic later, hopefully.