Less Pressure - Game Over

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Vote: Quinn Fabray

This game is shit, it literally hurts to read it.

I blame it on RVS sucking, and everybody here seeming to think walls are the only way to convey information.

Also, the forum format is annoying. I can't find post numbers, no post sorting, and the repeat posts are awful.

Btw, yes, the vote has a reason. I'll see if I can get around to explaining things later.

Tina Cohen-Chang wrote:I never distorted your words. I said you were devaluing active lurking, not lurking. Which is precisely the case. The difference between the two is essentially the difference between Noah and Santana: while Noah was actively viewing the thread, Santana was not. Therefore we can conclude with complete accuracy that Noah had the opportunity to post but was choosing not to, which directly conflicts with town interests. In Santana’s case: for all we know maybe she lost a grandparent. It is completely possible that real life happened and Santana wasn’t able to post. Now this may not be the case, and I’m not saying Santana isn’t scummy for lurking, but the truth is we don’t know. With Noah, we do. That’s why active lurking is more scummy than lurking.

Quinn Fabray wrote:for all you know assuming Santana is mafia, maybe they're being careful to not log in while reading the thread so they can stay under the radar, and Noah just stays logged in because it's more convenient

Truth is it's totally possible for mafia to "actively lurk" without actually being online (you don't need to log in to read posts, and even if they didn't want to read the forum they could probably just talk to their partners instead), and people who are actually mafia are the ones who would actually think about doing so, especially if one of their partners then makes a big deal about people being online or not).
Please note I'm not saying Santana is scum, they've barely made a post so it's impossible to tell; just that it's rather suspicious.
Also I think you're guilty of trying to write off Santana lurking for literally the entire day 1 and just letting that slide. At least Noah made a post once he was pushed enough. (scummy as it may be, I'll go through it in just a sec)

Tina Cohen-Chang wrote:Ummm are we reading the same posts? Cuz you really don’t, at least not that I can see. In one post you point to 261 and give a vague “among other reasons”. In this one you again point to 261 (note that this isn’t my post by rather Sue’s, or at least this is how it shows up in my browser, and this is why I say you’re buddying Sue on your reasoning for why I’m scummy). Other than that you say that I’m not scumhunting at all (I’ll get to this in a sec) and then actually point to my post (232, post numbers here are really random) simply saying it was scummy. So all in all I see only two reasons why you think I’m scum: 1) because you agree with Sue that one of my posts are scummy, but you don’t elaborate at all, and 2) I haven’t scumhunted.

I'm sorry, I should have said "thought" there (this is why I "thought" you and Kitty were scummy).
Right now I think you're scummy because of this post. Before then, it was just a gut feeling, but this post cemented my opinion.
At the time it should have been clear that even though I had that gut feeling, the misgivings I had about Kitty were greater (because of below), which was exactly why at the time my vote was on Kitty, not you.

Tina Cohen-Chang wrote:And your point being? I’ve already explained why I characterized it as a non-RVS vote, ( here in case you missed it). Are you really saying you think that I was being completely serious with that vote? If not, what the fuck are you trying to say? Hard to tell when you simply underline a few sentences of mine. You still haven’t explained why you think Kitty not commenting on it is scummy, and I stand by my point that my vote really wasn’t /that/ unusual for RVS.

Since apparently I need to spell it out, there's no way Kitty could have known at that point that your post was still RVS, unless you're saying she can read minds through the internet. It's obvious why one would think it was a serious vote, considering 1) it gave a seemingly-serious reason for the vote and 2) it blatantly stated that it was made outside of the RVS. (i.e. the two parts I emphasized)
I thought it was strange that Kitty avoided commenting on it and just talked about the number of posts rather than actual content that existed.

Tina Cohen-Chang wrote:I find it contrived because you call Kitty out for not scumhunting, but I fail to see how Lauren has done any more scumhunting than Kitty and yet somehow Lauren deserves a townread. I already asked you to explain this but you chose not to, and if you’re the player I have you pegged as this is definitely within your scum meta!

Did not give Lauren a town read, I said she didn't appear scummy. That's a null read. I also said that I hadn't had a chance to really go through her posts yet.
I'm not like you, giving town reads like they're candy.

Tina Cohen-Chang wrote:I'm pushing for a lynch of either you or Noah, and I don't know where I ever pushed for an actual lynch on Satana (Yeah I voted her but that’s entirely different).

Quinn Fabray wrote:

Tina Cohen-Chang wrote:However, the way Quinn is devaluing activity makes me think a scumteam of Quinn/Noah/Santana is a possibility.

LMAO nice pick of scumteam, you pick the rest of the scum as the two other lurkers who haven't done much of anything at all yet.

You can see where I would draw the conclusion that Noah and Santana would be probable lynch targets next, since you think that's the scumteam, right?

Tina Cohen-Chang wrote:The sentence “of course everyone else that's actively posting that isn't Quinn is town-ish” is entirely rhetoric and appears to be some attempt to represent my scumread on you contrasted with my townreads on Lauren and Kitty is entirely based on the fact that your name is Quinn? Use of rhetoric rather than logic is entirely scummy.

Don't be silly, it's not because my name is Quinn, you could replace "Quinn" with "me" or "your lynch target" and it would mean the exact same thing. It's just convenient that other than your lynch target, literally every other active player is totally town. I wonder what the easiest way to get the rest of the town to vote your selected target would be...
Also another example of you misrepresenting (or conveniently misunderstanding and casting them in the worst possible light) my posts, FYI.
Also complaining about rhetoric is blatant hypocrisy, just look at how many times you make veiled allusions about other people's "meta".

I swear my next post will be about Noah, coming up in a sec

P.S.: I don't think my posts are overly lengthy (honestly over 50% of them are just me quoting other people...), but I'll try to shorten them in the future.

Noah Puckerman wrote:@Tina: I am, lo and behold, an inexperienced mafia player and thus take quite a while to analyze the posts here and make general observations and conclusions of my own. Hence the "lurk". I've also neglected to check this thread as much as I should. Making a note to change that in the near future. Feel free to call me out as scum for this if you want; I'm honestly just not very good at the game (I can't wait for all the "Noah is scum" arguments you'll pull up outta this).

"Inexperienced mafia player" is null, slightly scummy. It's perfectly possible that's the case, and it's also perfectly possible that it's just a ruse to deflect suspicion. (WIFOM)
Pre-emptively talking about incoming scum arguments is scummy, but since he's not talking about something that he could actually change in this post it's not like he's deliberately asking for it like he would be if he said "I know this is scummy, but I'm going to do it anyway".

Noah Puckerman wrote:@Tina: At the moment, you're giving off a (slight) pro-town vibe to me, though you are extremely aggressive and do seem to buddy up with the ICs at times. Whatever you say, a buddying sentence is a buddying sentence, and the words "I know you're clean and you seem to be a fairly decent player…" sure sound like buddying to me.

@Kitty: First and foremost, stop calling me "kiddo"….just kidding.

I agree with the one point you made recently concerning Lauren. Some of the stuff that she's said: "I fully accepted what I was saying was entirely parroting", "This will be taken as solid buddying", and "Going to second what Tina said actually" seem like rather self-conscious and scummy things to say, especially since you've expressed the same opinions more than once. Note: I'm not trying to buddy with you, I'm merely agreeing with what you're saying…take from it what you will.

@Lauren: Flipping more towards scum than town. See above.

It would be nice if he could have original opinions about these three. That being said I wouldn't disagree that these arguments are valid, just that it'd be nice to actually have another viewpoint.
Also seriously it's kind of strange how he's talking about him buddying in a paragraph talking about how buddying is scummy. While I said the first mea culpa was excusable, this one isn't.

Noah Puckerman wrote:@Quinn: Random scumhunting does not a townie make. The reasons that you've given concerning Kitty's scumminess are a bit sketchy. And the only post you've made is concerning your scumhunting on Kitty. Again, not trying to buddy with Kitty here but this is just how I see the present situation.

Not sure why he calls it "random".
Saying that reasons are "sketchy" is fine, but not without your reasoning (even if that reasoning is just "it feels that way to me")
Also, he never gave me an actual read. :/
Also yeah, pre-empting complaints about how people will think your opinions are scummy is, well, scummy. Especially considering here that there's not much reason to think that this would actually be buddying (imo) if you hadn't pointed it out.

Noah Puckerman wrote:No votes as of yet. I'll try making some better analysis tomorrow when I'm not as sleep-deprived. Off to bed I go.

Looking forward to that analysis.

Verdict: Seems suspicious (even scummy!) but not, I think, the D1 lynch (would prefer a more informative lynch). Considering the lack of self-awareness in this post (calling Lauren scummy for being overly self-conscious while being overly self-conscious...) it's both really suspicious and makes the possibility that he's actually not that good of a player a bit more tenable (though again, WIFOM, and even if he is inexperienced that doesn't necessarily make him town). I wouldn't object to him being lynched D1, though I think we could have a more optimal target. I feel like he'd be an easy lynch for the mafia to push, too.

Lauren coming up next.

Quick response: You say there was "no way Kitty could have known at that point" that it was an RVS vote. However, I think I made it pretty clear that I wasn't entirely serious about it when I said stuff like "Not that it'll matter since we're probably lynching scumlauren anyways ;]". I pretty clearly exaggerated the strength of my vote and I think it's likely Kitty picked up on this, but I don't know since I'm not her~!

Town read, null read.. It's not that important. What's important is you still haven't explained the discrepency between your Kitty and Lauren reads on account of scumhunting. Still looking for an answer as to why you think Lauren has been scumhunting.

Just cuz I said Santana might be on a scumteam with you two does not mean I want to lynch her today.. You're completely putting words into my mouth and this is yet another example of you being guilty of what you accuse me of: "blatant misrepresentation".

My problem with your sentence "of course everyone else that's actively posting that isn't Quinn is town-ish" is that it in no way attempts to dispute my reads. If what you meant by it was that I was trying to give active players townreads in order to buddy them and push for your lynch (which is faulty since it is based on the incorrect premise that I am scum), then just say that, since I really don't know how I was supposed to draw that from the aforementioned sentence. I didn't actually state it as if it were fact, hence the question mark. I was simply attempting to show you how unfounded that claim was through exaggeration.

Allusions to people's metas are entirely a joke, its just a game let's have some fun with it~~!

"It's just convenient that other than your lynch target, literally every other active player is totally town. I wonder what the easiest way to get the rest of the town to vote your selected target would be..."

I'd be more worried if someone had townreads on most people except a select one or two cause it could read like mafia trying to appeal to the town players' emotions and is pretty subtle-not-subtle buddying/flattery. Besides I don't think her reads are "totally town" like you say, I think she saw some suspicion in Lauren at one point, don't remember what she said about me. And of course every non-IC player only has 3 active players to put reads on so it isn't really "convenient."

Judging by the recent argument and posts: unvote, Vote Quinn Fabray.

Sorry I've been scarce, everyone. Rough few days.

Never said Lauren was scumhunting. Period.

Since I'm clearly being lynched today, going to quickly look through Lauren and then post summary of opinion. Maybe it'll be useful after i flip town :3

p.s. don't hammer me yet

Ignoring rvs stuff, not really that important
Post 1
chides Will for being annoyed that someone voted him. If scum, possibly covering for Noah?

Post 2
Agrees with Tina that ICs should be the ones pushing town. Not much to say atm

Post 3
Admits that she was 'entirely' parroting Tina (!)
Note afterwards she says that she wasn't only parroting her but also added to her point. But then why admit you were completely parroting her in the first place? Seems fishy.
Preempts "buddying" call, perhaps because she burned herself on 'parroting'
Thinks Tina is leaning scum because of the Tina-Sue exchange. (My gut agrees with this)

Post 4
WIFOMs Will again. (why? Tina's not even attacking her)
Justifies opinion on why Tina seemed scummy in the exchange, admits that the vote on her was justified.

Post 5
Votes Noah for inactivity. Thinks that his lurking is scum-motivated.

Post 6

Oh and since the whole 'Analyse intent not content' shit that I was getting at earlier was interpreted as 'posting without content', what I was getting at is that more experienced players in this format know that, as scum or Town, scumhunting is imperative to appearing Town, and as such good players can make very town-aligned posts regardless of alignment, so I've begun to look more at the possibilities for the intent behind their content

Reasonable method. Perhaps alleging that some of the people who are making town-aligned posts are actually scum?

Post 7
Dismisses Noah's concerns about herself by saying that he's a hypocrite. Note that she dodges the actual argument.


Post 8
Scumread on Noah. Says that the depths of his post show that he's much smarter than he seems (I'm not seeing this myself, to be honest; his post was pretty self-incriminating)

Post 9
Townread on Tina and Quinn (i.e. me).

End result: I could see her being a scumpair with Noah, to be honest. She continually WIFOMs his faux pas in the beginning, and near the end I do think it's possible that she's realized that he's a lost cause and has started trying to bus him.

I feel that she's scummier than Kitty. Right now I would guess at either Noah+Lauren or (maybe) Santana+Tina (please note that it's impossible to be sure of this one because Santana's posted literally zero content). Tina+Noah scum is possible as well.

Third scum may be the other one of the Noah/Santana pair, or it could be Kitty. I think Kitty's interactions with Tina (and vice versa) are interesting, so that is something to look at.

If both Noah and Santana are town (and the three mafia are Kitty, Lauren, and Tina) then this game was doomed from the start.

I do feel that Tina is almost definitely scum. Considering after this day town is in LYLO I think D2 town should focus on:
1) get information out of Santana and Noah; if one of these ends up actually being lynched and flips scum, what does that tell you about the other people who are alive?
2) determine which player is more likely to be scum; Lauren, or Tina.

Considering it's LYLO town really doesn't have the chances to just lynch someone based on inactivity or without significant reasons to do so. I would be wary of lynching Santana at this point and think that any wagon started on Santana would definitely be scummy.

tl;dr (note this is just my opinion, could easily be wrong jsyk):

I think it's likely that one of Lauren and Tina are scum, possibly both.

One of Noah and Santana should be scum.

I still think Tina is a better lynch D2 than Lauren.

Do not lynch Santana D2. I would be wary of lynching Noah; at this point Town needs a meaningful flip if they want to lynch 2 straight mafia in a row (which is necessary as scum get a kill after the first mafia death).

@Mod

Is deadline on Friday (which is actually June 28th) or Thursday (which is actually June 27th)?

Forgot something.

Kitty looks the most town-ish to me.

Not that there's much competition...

In other words, she looks the "most" town-ish, but even then I still wouldn't feel comfortable definitely calling her town.

(Okay, this is my last post)

Ryan Murphy wrote:Deadline is Friday, June 28 at 07:00 GMT +0, approximately 1 day from now.

Edited. Deadline corresponds with U.K./GMT Friday morning and U.S. Thursday night.

Gdi those posts were really town
But at the same time I'm afraid its a ploy~~

For now, unvote.

Hopefully people are active enough later to discuss, but we probably wouldn't have enough people on even myself or others think another lynch is better (I'm currently undecided, only other viable option appears to be Noah).
I'll think about this and post more when I get home.

Hope to see people active an engaged!~~

For the record the unvote wasn't because I decided i didn't approve of a Quinn lynch, its mostly so no one hammers yet.

@Quinn what changed between now and when you were calling Lauren null and Kitty scum?

I read Lauren's posts instead of just skimming over them.

I like that Quinn appears to be trying to help the town post-mortum. I read it as pretty town, but if she's scum she might just be trying to throw us off potential scumpartners.

I don't like that Quinn seems to have given up on averting the lynch. Makes me think she's trying to look town by coming from a mindset of: "Okay so I know I'm getting lynched, now let me post some really town-looking stuff to make it look like when I have nothing else to lose, I'm still trying to help the town".

Seems to me like a villager would still be trying to avoid a mislynch. I took my vote off of her partially as a reaction test. I feel like a town reaction would be to gain a little hope (I mean I know personally I am 100% sure that any lynch other than my own is the better one, and would fight it to the end) while scum might act like "Oh hey my ploy's working, better not give it up". I mean its entirely possible that Quinn's just given up entirely, which wouldn't be particularly strange given the shitty activity in this game!, but there's my read on that.

I also don't like the:

"I think it's likely that one of Lauren and Tina are scum, possibly both.

One of Noah and Santana should be scum."


If you're actually a villager, than you know 3/5 of the other players are scum, so neither of these statements are actually helpful. These claims definitely come from the more scummy place.

I feel confident enough to go back and vote Quinn Fabray

If people are actually serious about a Noah wagon then post! Actually post anyways, thoughts and shit are always welcome.

Well, I'm worst IC. But yeah, still liking were my vote is as deadline approaches.

Also, Tina has been dropping town-tells everywhere, and combine that with my original read on them being total bs, assuming these are my last words never lynch them.